Alaska Airline flight cockpit lockdown

You never know when the guy in 27B is the next Yoel Lerner, Eden Natan-Zada, Baruch Goldstein, Noam Federman or member of the Shelomo Ben-Yosef Brigade of TNT.
 
BigWaveDave said:
Not concerned. I would be bummed I couldn't use the bathroom because some dumb ass Jewish guy was praying in there. Mostly I worry about: small children that scream in what sounds like horrific agony, ginormous lard butts that should be required to pay for 2 seats, those who somehow were able to board the aircraft even though they must have been sleeping in a puddle of urine in a dark alleyway the night prior, or getting up and using the bathroom even though the pilots of the Jet Blue airbus forgot the seat belt sign in fear that I would be tackled by some hair trigger retard.
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That's pretty much the demographic of the world, next time fly charter I guess.
 
BigWaveDave said:
First off. I was not responding to the incident. I was responding to the reactions of forum users. Second. Please name an instance of Jews blowing themselves up, blowing up and airplane or blowing things up with a hijacked airplane. Sure they have done unsavory stuff in far away places that is view(ed) by some as terrorism but so has the U.S. Military.

My point was most are too ignorant to factually back up their concerns. Just because your concerned it does not warrant action or taking others rights away.
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Oh okay, so you now sound soooo much smarter than the rest of us because you use the defense of "name the last time."

Hey guess what, Richard Reid (Shoe Bomber) and Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab (Underwear bomber) dont fit into the mold of your implied Islamic terrorist. What's funny is how ignorant you are by using that sort of defense. That mentallity will be the motivation to use non expected profiles of people (i.e. blonde hair, blue eye) as a terrorist.


Explain to me what right was removed of these passengers? Were they asked to stop praying? Were they arrested and charged with anything? Did they face incarceration? Lack of freedom of speech?

The legal system is set up in a simplistic manner: Follow X rules - Receive Y Rights. Dont follow X rules, remove Y rights. They didnt obey the F/A's commands therefor they are a jeopardy to the flight. The subsequent actions by these passengers further motivated a higher level of suspicion.


Let me guess...if this were Muslims, it'd be okay though, right?
 
pullup said:
Why is it a ridiculous spot?
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Because everyone wants to kill them. Beyond the Indian Wars and Civil War we've been fairly free of conflict in N. America post revolution, which is why this is such a great place to put a country. Why would anyone in their right mind want to put a country in the middle of a hornets nest like the middle east? There were plenty of other suitable locations to put a country at the forming. I have to look around, but I seem to remember that there were several sites on other continents which were proposed locations of a Jewish homeland at Israel's founding.
 
I'm a 135/91 guy and other than pilot one of my many additional duties is securing the aircraft. So maybe that is why I don't understand the "hair trigger" comments that were made before. In my line of work you would just be fired. It also seems ignorant to me. Maybe I am the one who is profiling but Jews don't tend to suicide during their acts of terror. If one of them was wandering around my neighborhood with an assault rifle likely I would head the other direction however I wouldn't worry any more about the kook with boxes strapped to his head than I would the dozens of other shady people that I am forced to sit in the back with.

If your going to lump Jews into a big terrorist pile you may as well include the hippie transplant Jews that are spiking trees in Oregon. What that has to do with aviation I have no idea but I'm following other forum users logic now. It is apples and oranges. Suicidal aircraft hijacking is uniquely Arab/Muslim in origin.

What I am trying to also get at is that in this fantastic melting pot of ours we have to wake up and be tolerant of each others customs. We have to embrace the fact that safety is not a guarantee and live as free men which includes risk. When I see our culture deteriorating into a downward spiral of voluntary loss of individual liberties and in fact citizens helping to take others rights away it makes me rather irritable.
 
BigWaveDave said:
In my line of work you would just be fired. It also seems ignorant to me. Maybe I am the one who is profiling but Jews don't tend to suicide during their acts of terror.
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This isn't a 91/135 thing though, this is an airline thing. Of course it would be ridiculous to have this reaction in 'your line of work,' nobody's going to blow up his own aircraft. There's also a bit of a difference when it's just the crew and the people praying on board, vs the crew and 150 other people that are worried because they have no idea what is going on.

To respond to the second part of the quote, you're assuming that it was known that they were Jewish, which I don't believe it was. Aside from the fact that being Jewish does not automatically mean you're completely free of suspicion no matter what you do, the info that the crew had was that there were people acting strangely, standing guard while one of them was in the lav, praying in a way that people weren't familiar with, ignoring the flight attendants' questions, and not listening when they were asked to sit down because the seatbelt sign was still on. With that information, I certainly don't have a problem with this crew's actions, and I'm not sure how anyone else could either.
 
Again...

Lack of information up front. What do we have as eyes and ears if there's a disturbance? A peephole, some flight attendants who may be a little excitable, and maybe a black and white camera to show us what's directly in front of the cockpit door. As such, the pilots (i.e. the people who are going to assess the situation) have a very limited amount of information in which to make a decision. Sometimes it'll be culturally-insensitive or otherwise incorrect, but what do you expect? It's based on an incomplete picture. Think jigsaw puzzle with half the pieces missing. :)

In the 91/135 world of King Airs and junk, it's easy to just look back there and say "Hey, what're y'all doin' back there?" :) Not so in 121 with locked cockpit doors; making the most conservative decision based on the information you have is really the best you can do.
 
dasleben said:
Again...

Lack of information up front. What do we have as eyes and ears if there's a disturbance? A peephole, some flight attendants who may be a little excitable, and maybe a black and white camera to show us what's directly in front of the cockpit door. As such, the pilots (i.e. the people who are going to assess the situation) have a very limited amount of information in which to make a decision. Sometimes it'll be culturally-insensitive or otherwise incorrect, but what do you expect? It's based on an incomplete picture. Think jigsaw puzzle with half the pieces missing. :)

In the 91/135 world of King Airs and junk, it's easy to just look back there and say "Hey, what're y'all doin' back there?" :) Not so in 121 with locked cockpit doors; making the most conservative decision based on the information you have is really the best you can do.
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Yeah I see your point. I also see you on TCAS when I'm passing you ;)
 
greaper007 said:
Beyond the Indian Wars and Civil War we've been fairly free of conflict in N. America post revolution, which is why this is such a great place to put a country. Why would anyone in their right mind want to put a country in the middle of a hornets nest like the middle east?
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That's only because we committed genocide on the other ethnic groups with a claim to N America. Maybe the Israelis can kill all the Palestinians and Arabs and then there will be peace. Or better yet, maybe we can carve out a homeland for the Palestinians in AZ. After all, why would any Palestinian in their right mind want to put their homeland in the middle of hornet's nest.


(You do understand that every argument you have for moving the Israelis applies equally to the Palestinians.)
 
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