Commercial XC requirements changed?

J

JordanD

Here so I don’t get fined
Hey all, do the cross countries for the Commercial certificate (both 2 hour, 100nm cross countries and the 300nm cross country) still have to be under VFR conditions? The requirements section in the Gleim still says so, and one of my CFIs says the same, however looking in the current FARs it no longer mentions anything about VFR in the cross country section. Same for solo, I don't see where it says that the 300nm cross country has to be solo. Looking in the FAR/AIM for 2007 (the oldest one I could find lying around) I see they said VFR and solo. Does anybody know when these requirements changed, assuming they did?
 
The only ones that had to be VFR were the dual 2 hour/100 mile flights, one of which is day and one of which is night. But they no longer have to be VFR.
 
also they don't have to be done solo...stupid insurance won't let me solo the Seneca 'til 25 time in type and like 500tt.

61.139(b)(4)(i)
One cross country flight of not less than 300nm total distance with landings at a minimum of 3 points, 1 of which is a straight line distance of at least 250nm from the original departure point.

Don't see anything in there about solo...this is out of the 2011 FAR AIM

Also, I think I remember seeing the VFR requirements for the other 2 xcs in the 2010 FAR AIM...I will have to dig around and see if I can find last year's copy.
 
So now I can count my long cross country for my instrument rating, which was done under the hood, with a CFII, for my 100nm day cross country? Any idea why they relaxed the terms on it?
 
djh1007 said:
also they don't have to be done solo...stupid insurance won't let me solo the Seneca 'til 25 time in type and like 500tt.

61.139(b)(4)(i)
One cross country flight of not less than 300nm total distance with landings at a minimum of 3 points, 1 of which is a straight line distance of at least 250nm from the original departure point.

Don't see anything in there about solo...this is out of the 2011 FAR AIM

Also, I think I remember seeing the VFR requirements for the other 2 xcs in the 2010 FAR AIM...I will have to dig around and see if I can find last year's copy.
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It is solo or supervised PIC, to match that of the multiengine requirements. See 14 CFR 61.129 (a) (3,4)—in relevant part,
(3) 20 hours of training in a single engine airplane on the areas of operation listed in 61.127(b)(1) of this part that includes at least—
...
(iii) One 2-hour cross country flight in a single engine airplane in daytime conditions that consists of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure;
(iv) One 2-hour cross country flight in a single engine airplane in nighttime conditions that consists of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the point of departure; and
...
(4) Ten hours of solo flight time in a single engine airplane or 10 hours of flight time performing the duties of pilot in command with an authorized instructor on board...on the areas of operation listed under 61.127(b)(1) that include—
(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of 3 points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the departure point.
...
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As amended, Amendment 61-124A, 74 FR 53646, October 20, 2009.

JordanD said:
So now I can count my long cross country for my instrument rating, which was done under the hood, with a CFII, for my 100nm day cross country? Any idea why they relaxed the terms on it?
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Insurance, probably, and consistency with the requirements for airplane multiengine.

As to the issue of double counting, I don't remember, I think there was an LOI on that somewhere. Let me look.

Edit: Sort of. The instruction you receive for your instrument rating, may count towards the requirements of 61.129(a). See the Hartzell letter of interpretation, dated 17 December 2010. In relevant part,
[A previous interpretation] dispels the notion that holding an instrument rating is, on its own, sufficient evidence that the applicant has fulfilled the aeronautical experience requirements for a commercial pilot certificate under 61.129. However, we anticipate that for commercial pilot applicants who already hold an instrument rating, the hours of instrument training used to obtain that rating will meet some, if not most, or quite often, meet all the requirements for instrument aeronautical experience as required under 61.129.
...
There is not an exact equivalence between the training required for an instrument rating under 61.65 and the aeronautical experience requirements under 61.129.
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Edit, to the edit: I need more coffee. It counts as long as the time is properly documented.
 
JordanD said:
So now I can count my long cross country for my instrument rating, which was done under the hood, with a CFII, for my 100nm day cross country? Any idea why they relaxed the terms on it?
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I don't believe you can. Since it is required training for the cert. (much like the Long IFR X-C is required for the IR), it has to be done seperately and documented as such. I don't have my FAR/AIM handy, so anybody correct me if I'm wrong...
 
I just went through a few of my old FAR/AIMs, it looks like 2011 is the first year where they don't specify VFR for the 2 100nm cross countries. But autothrust is right, it looks like the long cross country does still have to be solo.
 
JordanD said:
I just went through a few of my old FAR/AIMs, it looks like 2011 is the first year where they don't specify VFR for the 2 100nm cross countries. But autothrust is right, it looks like the long cross country does still have to be solo.
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No no, it need not be solo...read 61.129(a)(4) very carefully... :)
 
JEP said:
If you are ready to make the commercial Long xc, why would you want to pay your CFI for multiple hours of riding along....?
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Because often, people will do their initial commercial in a multiengine airplane. In that case, the long x-c has to be done in a multi. And it's pretty near impossible to find a flight school that whose insurance will let a non-MEI take a multiengine airplane solo. Hence the exception in the regulations.
 
JEP said:
If you are ready to make the commercial Long xc, why would you want to pay your CFI for multiple hours of riding along....?
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That's my thought. I know the thing about flying being hours of boredom, but 600nm roundtrip in a 172 by myself is going to be a doozie!
 
Roger said:
Because often, people will do their initial commercial in a multiengine airplane. In that case, the long x-c has to be done in a multi. And it's pretty near impossible to find a flight school that whose insurance will let a non-MEI take a multiengine airplane solo. Hence the exception in the regulations.
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Well yes, that would make sense. I was going on the assumption since it was not metioned it would be single engine.... Oh well.
 
JEP said:
Well yes, that would make sense. I was going on the assumption since it was not metioned it would be single engine.... Oh well.
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Your assumption might have been right.... I mostly just skimmed the thread.
 
JordanD said:
That's my thought. I know the thing about flying being hours of boredom, but 600nm roundtrip in a 172 by myself is going to be a doozie!
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Get checked out in something faster and go somewhere.
 
ComplexHiAv8r said:
Get checked out in something faster and go somewhere.
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I'd love to fly something different but around here if it's not a Cessna the price is going to be pretty steep. The only other things are an Arrow that works out to about $150 an hour or a Cirrus that goes for well over $200. 10 hour checkout on the Cirrus too!
 
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