Citation Roll

Apophis said:
It really is. I mean it's universally accepted that mine is the largest, so I think we can go ahead and close this thread down now.
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There are "brothas" in the room, don't embarrass yourself, son! :)
 
For all you who love to throw NTSB case files out there in regards to putting a 'transport/normal' category airplane through "aerobatics".... here is an interesting case file:
http://www.ntsb.gov/alj/o_n_o/docs/AVIATION/4717.PDF

Skydive Operation King Air (normal category)- FAA inspector observed a King Air do up to 90 degrees of bank and 45+ degrees of nose down pitch... is this Aerobatic flight and careless and reckless behavior?
The FSDO thought so... and tried to go after the pilot's certificate. However, the NTSB ruled that these maneuvers were 'absolutely normal' for skydive operations and granted an appeal for the pilot, and the FAA suspension actions were dismissed.
 
ryan1234 said:
For all you who love to throw NTSB case files out there in regards to putting a 'transport/normal' category airplane through "aerobatics".... here is an interesting case file:
http://www.ntsb.gov/alj/o_n_o/docs/AVIATION/4717.PDF

Skydive Operation King Air (normal category)- FAA inspector observed a King Air do up to 90 degrees of bank and 45+ degrees of nose down pitch... is this Aerobatic flight and careless and reckless behavior?
The FSDO thought so... and tried to go after the pilot's certificate. However, the NTSB ruled that these maneuvers were 'absolutely normal' for skydive operations and granted an appeal for the pilot, and the FAA suspension actions were dismissed.
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Not quite what they wrote. Kind of semantics, but they wrote that there is no evidence that a rapid descent is necessarily inappropriate. They also made it clear that the definition of what was approriate and what was not would depend on the situation. They use the example of AG Ops where manuevers that would otherwise be deemed aerobatic where approriate. So someone rolling a Citation during cruise would have a tough time using this case as a precedent.
 
Well, they could certainly use it as precedent for the limited purpose of affirming that what is necessary for one flight is not necessary for another. Frankly, the whole discussion is pointless, because we have no idea of the circumstances under which the flight in question was operating. That would require an investigation, which would require A) Someone dropping a dime on these guys (somehow, potentially years after the fact) and B) Anyone caring.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Well, they could certainly use it as precedent for the limited purpose of affirming that what is necessary for one flight is not necessary for another. Frankly, the whole discussion is pointless, because we have no idea of the circumstances under which the flight in question was operating. That would require an investigation, which would require A) Someone dropping a dime on these guys (somehow, potentially years after the fact) and B) Anyone caring.
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That was pretty much my point. I'm not saying the "Citation Roll" wasn't 'aerobatic', but rather that FAA labels may not necessarily be correct in a specific context.

Also - just to point out as well... a good aileron roll should be a ~1g maneuver.
 
ryan1234 said:
That was pretty much my point. I'm not saying the "Citation Roll" wasn't 'aerobatic', but rather that FAA labels may not necessarily be correct in a specific context.
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Well, yeah. I'm amazed this even requires a discussion. I'm constantly startled by how many people have a deep and abiding need to point out how everyone else is Doin it Rong rather than concentrating on their own job. I make mistakes all the time (ask anyone who flies with me). I simply don't have time to worry about everyone else. Where do you people get all this free time? Oh, if I haven't said it yet...repeat after me....MYOFB.
 
What about these guys? Surely they know what's legal.

[video=youtube;aIX9XVSU3kE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIX9XVSU3kE[/video]
 
Hacker15e said:
A good barrel roll is...dunno about an aileron roll, though.
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A ballistic aileron roll in slower rolling airplanes should go less than 1g but stay positive throughout the maneuver.

Can the F15 roll from straight & level without any altitude loss?
 
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