VFR Not Recommended

[Fly_Unity]

Whats up with FSS saying this on almost every weather brief my students call for?

The last three days its clear as a whistle, (maybe a high layer of scattered clouds thats not a factor) and my students get done with the weather briefer and want to cancel flights.
Both METARS and TAF's at both location show clear skies, route is clear. One of my students recently stated pretty clearly that he didnt want to go because of: "moderate icing above the freezing level (freezing level is ground level), therefore VFR is not Recommended" What am I to tell him? I finally convinced him to go because there was literally nothing along our route present or forecasted. We went and the only clouds we seen for like five thousand feet above us.There are Airmets almost all winter long for icing, and icing is not a factor since we are VFR anyways. So now we are to teach students to ignore the briefer's recommendations? Why do we call them in the first place if we do not base our decision on what they tell us?


"End of Rant"

 

[R Banger]

Thank you! I am glad I am not the only one. I am running into this more and more. I am torn between going, because I am in essence saying, "the briefer doesn't know what they are talking about." Honestly the only way that I swing it, is I go over the weather myself with the student. Then tell them we can go because it is a dual flight and I am instrument rated, can get them some good experience, blah, blah, blah, blah. I make sure to clarify that if they were to hear this from a briefer then they should listen the briefer. I am big on personal minimums.

 

[msmspilot]

I have noticed this too. It even went so far that on one flight, the briefer started with basically "it's IFR, so VFR is not recommended" and tried to end the briefing. After I reminded him twice that I had asked for an IFR briefing, we finally continued.

I was presenting for an FAA safety meeting and one of the topics was VFR into IMC. The case study we used was from one of the FAA pamphlets they put out on various topics. The FAA guy that came to the safety meeting made a big deal out of the fact that the pilot was warned in three separate weather briefings that "VFR is not recommended." I took the other side that the warning is so common, people don't listen any more.

I haven't had it come up very often, but the way I handle it with students is that I go over the weather, find why VFR is not recommended, and show them why it is or is not dangerous, and we have to make our own decisions. That's called being the pilot in command.

 

[subpilot]

I think it is all about liability. If they state "VFR flight not rcommended" and you have an accident then the family of the victim can't sue FSS because "hey, we told him he shouldn't go."

 

[Wolfy]

The FAA guy that came to the safety meeting made a big deal out of the fact that the pilot was warned in three separate weather briefings that "VFR is not recommended." I took the other side that the warning is so common, people don't listen any more.

For some reason, that reminded me about how the news always makes a big deal about how the pilot in a VFR accident WASN'T ON A FLIGHT PLAN! Whenever people bring that up, I tell them I haven't been on a flight plan in years.

 

[msmspilot]

For some reason, that reminded me about how the news always makes a big deal about how the pilot in a VFR accident WASN'T ON A FLIGHT PLAN! Whenever people bring that up, I tell them I haven't been on a flight plan in years.

Exactly.

It's also like the tornado warnings. The Doppler radar is great, but it's causing tornado warnings for rotation that never makes it to the ground, and before too long, the boy cries wolf for real, but no one is listening.

 

[A150K]

We get that around here alot for mountain obscuration. Even when the intended route of flight is in the direct opposite direction of any mountains and everthing else is high scattered. I think the briefers are just trying to cover themselves in case something were to happen, but sometimes their idea of good VFR conditions is completely cloudless, atleast at the PRC branch of Lockhead FSS.

 

[TWP]

It's the pilots job to make the go no-go decision. End of story. Briefers can be wrong, so can metars, tafs, etc. Tell this to your student.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

It's also like the tornado warnings. The Doppler radar is great, but it's causing tornado warnings for rotation that never makes it to the ground, and before too long, the boy cries wolf for real, but no one is listening.

Not exactly. There is way more behind a Doppler indicated tornado vortex signature than a single rotation signature, to the point that it would be complicated to explain. The problem isn't crying wolf, its educating the general public to understand how it all works.

 

[Chief Captain]

Here in FL, we get "VFR not recommended" every day during the summer. I'm pretty sure it's a liability thing like somebody said before. I understand where they're coming from though. If I have to send a student on a solo xc, if FSS says VFR not recommended, I call it off, even if I don't agree. To do otherwise would be giving the FAA extra rope to hang me if something happens on the flight.

 

[JLF]

I'm feeling pretty alone in this thread...

I give my students a duats.com username and password to use until they get their own **** private pilot certificate number. They login, they select Standard Briefing, and then they print all ~14 glorious pages every X/C they take.

It takes more of my time, but we comb through all of it and they make the final PIC decision. I write notes on the brief about them being able to call FSS, but I can't even remember if we've actually done it yet. That's bad. I will rectify that because I do occasionally call FSS and will continue to when needed. I bet they won't unless they're shown. I know when I was a student pilot I was a nervous wreck the first time I dialed.

 

[amjon]

I'm feeling pretty alone in this thread...

I give my students a duats.com username and password to use until they get their own **** private pilot certificate number. They login, they select Standard Briefing, and then they print all ~14 glorious pages every X/C they take.

It takes more of my time, but we comb through all of it and they make the final PIC decision. I write notes on the brief about them being able to call FSS, but I can't even remember if we've actually done it yet. That's bad. I will rectify that because I do occasionally call FSS and will continue to when needed. I bet they won't unless they're shown. I know when I was a student pilot I was a nervous wreck the first time I dialed.

I think you can use a student pilot certificate number. I have one and am pretty sure that's what I used.

 

[pwttogfk]

I use a hybrid approach...I make sure all my students have a DUATS username/password, and before cross-countries I have them print out the briefing from DUATS and then call FSS and take notes on the printout from the DUATS briefing. It really helps them be aware of the entire weather picture.