No illegal alien pilot left behind

This is the perfect issue to champion the anti-illegal cause. Here illegals are shown to be infiltrating the aviation industry, stealing jobs, working for free (because no citizen would do that) and destroying life as we know if for hard working citizen pilots.

Or you could consider the real issue, which is, again, how TSA isn't doing anything.
 
Unfortunately the rhetoric makes it hard to take the piece very seriously. At first it seems narrowly focused on illegal aliens, but then it seems to argue against flight training being available to foreign nationals, in general. The author is just using an individual incident as a springboard to a boilerplate "tougher borders" editorial. Which is a shame, because rules governing foreign pilot training are, indeed, iffy at best in implementation. A focused discussion of those rules and their shortcomings would be illuminating to the general public.

That said, the flight training industry would be an even worse spot if not for the legal training of foreign nationals.
 
Without foreigns many flights schools would be closed, especially the ones that have a ton of CFIs employed, the US needs them!

As I said in the other thread it does not surprise me this pilots are Brazilians. For a Brazilian it`s really hard to get legally to the US and train. Keep in mind that this students probably are from really rich families, they have way more money then the upper middle class in the US, unfortunately there is a lot of Brazilians that in the past went to the US on a tourist Visa and never left, the immigration peoples know this and make it hard for the rest (the ones that would like to do everything legal) really hard. It`s really hard for a Brazilian to get a study Visa.....this pilots have no interest in staying in the US or taking advantage of the system, they just want to fly , get their ratings and get the hell out, aviation in Brazil offers way more opportunities for them....
 
swisspilot said:
Without foreigns many flights schools would be closed, especially the ones that have a ton of CFIs employed, the US needs them!

As I said in the other thread it does not surprise me this pilots are Brazilians. For a Brazilian it`s really hard to get legally to the US and train. Keep in mind that this students probably are from really rich families, they have way more money then the upper middle class in the US, unfortunately there is a lot of Brazilians that in the past went to the US on a tourist Visa and never left, the immigration peoples know this and make it hard for the rest (the ones that would like to do everything legal) really hard. It`s really hard for a Brazilian to get a study Visa.....this pilots have no interest in staying in the US or taking advantage of the system, they just want to fly , get their ratings and get the hell out, aviation in Brazil offers way more opportunities for them....
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Just imagine how hard it is for Colombians...
 
I suspect these Brazilians are simply on the wrong visa. (and by that I mean one which didn't involve paying off the right government department). I can't imagine them swimming the Rio Grande to pay tens of thousands of dollars for flight training. There are flight schools who haven't paid the government to be approved, who tell students they can train on a tourist visa or, for the right country, a waiver. I suspect that may be what happened here.

TSA just collects money and doesn't do any kind of background check. That's the issue here. Foreign students are being repeatedly taxed in order to fly here, and it is enough to damage the flight training industry. There is a huge movement in Europe toward training in South Africa and Australia (neither of which require a visa or expensive background check). The $500+ saved goes a long way. Flight schools need that foreign money.
 
NickH said:
I suspect these Brazilians are simply on the wrong visa. (and by that I mean one which didn't involve paying off the right government department). I can't imagine them swimming the Rio Grande to pay tens of thousands of dollars for flight training. There are flight schools who haven't paid the government to be approved, who tell students they can train on a tourist visa or, for the right country, a waiver. I suspect that may be what happened here.

TSA just collects money and doesn't do any kind of background check. That's the issue here. Foreign students are being repeatedly taxed in order to fly here, and it is enough to damage the flight training industry. There is a huge movement in Europe toward training in South Africa and Australia (neither of which require a visa or expensive background check). The $500+ saved goes a long way. Flight schools need that foreign money.
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I`m sure they were there just with the tourist Visa, which I think it`s valid for 10 years and allows you to stay in the US twice a year for 3 months. I`m pretty sure that when you apply for the TSA clearance it`s all computer based, nobody even looks at your application, it is a steal! it amazes me that even green card holders have to do it! It`s just a Govt/TSA robbery and does not do anything for safety

Yeah Australia is getting really popular especially because you can temporary work there after you are done, there is no J1 or any Visa like in the US, you can apply to the company you want and get paid....most teach but many also go flying in the bush. I think it`s the same for NZ.

After 9/11 and the TSA BS the US lost huge training contracts with the middle east, this peoples are all training in Malaysia now. They have some really big academies with good standards. Canada also took many contracts out of the hands of the US, if they just had better weather most foreigns will be training there.
 
swisspilot said:
I`m sure they were there just with the tourist Visa, which I think it`s valid for 10 years and allows you to stay in the US twice a year for 3 months. I`m pretty sure that when you apply for the TSA clearance it`s all computer based, nobody even looks at your application, it is a steal! it amazes me that even green card holders have to do it! It`s just a Govt/TSA robbery and does not do anything for safety

Yeah Australia is getting really popular especially because you can temporary work there after you are done, there is no J1 or any Visa like in the US, you can apply to the company you want and get paid....most teach but many also go flying in the bush. I think it`s the same for NZ.

After 9/11 and the TSA BS the US lost huge training contracts with the middle east, this peoples are all training in Malaysia now. They have some really big academies with good standards. Canada also took many contracts out of the hands of the US, if they just had better weather most foreigns will be training there.
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I can't see how training in Canada would be cheaper (even factoring in the cost of the visas). I have a friend that did his Canadian CFI and he said it was WAY more expensive than here.
 
Harv's air in Canada is one of the most well known Canadian schools for international students. Their website is very open and honest about the costs (unlike many US flight schools!) and they rent a 172 for $CDN120 p/h. That's competitive before adding the fact that you are $500 ahead for the visa and TSA. Add another $130 per rating for repeated uncompleted background checks (Because the 'Good' terrorists are allowed to fly multi-engine, but not in instrument conditions), and a pro-pilot student does even better.

Their business is booming since I considered training there in 2005. They now have training programs specifically for Indian and Chinese students.

Is the paperwork really such an impediment to training here for foreigners? Check out an international forum like pprune to see all the information and miss-information potential students are bombarded with. Many of the people giving advice don't even understand the system.
 
amjon said:
I can't see how training in Canada would be cheaper (even factoring in the cost of the visas). I have a friend that did his Canadian CFI and he said it was WAY more expensive than here.
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Peoples in Europe don`t get loans, most have the money to pay for training up front, other students come with contracts that get discount due to high number of students they send, every second Caribbean pilot has trained in Canada.....flight training is even more expensive in Australia and SA but peoples still go there. I had the Opportunity of having to do all the paperwork required to study in the US, it`s a real pain (I had to meet requirements that none of the US or residents have: I had to show a bank statement that I had all the money necessary for flight training, I had to have health Insurance,.......)I can imagine that somebody just does not have the patience for it...did you know that out of 10 Indians that apply for a Visa to go to the US for flight training only 4 get it?
 
Not even mentioning the lack of FAA license attractiveness outside the US and difficulty of conversion... The Aussies and Canadian issued licenses are much more easy to convert to JAA when they are not straight JAA licenses...
 
I held my breath and read the article, I think she's a little "out to lunch."

People on the incorrect visa's doing flight training. Big freaking deal. If she's trying to draw a parallel to 9/11, well, they were on proper visas.

From litigation to economic shifts to reluctance to modernize training, general aviation is dying in America.

I dreamed of flying my own airplane, but between America thinking that they want to fly coast to coast for $49 and 172's going for six-digit prices, it's not going to happen.
 
On the other hand, there are rules, if the law says you can't train on a tourist visa, then you can't and if you get busted and deported, well hey don't come crying on forums. But as usual in the US, what should be simple gets burdened under an unbelievable amount of bureaucracy. And in the end, those suffering are the small flight schools.
I don't know how difficult it would be for a US citizen to come and train in France...
 
Pépé le Pilot said:
On the other hand, there are rules, if the law says you can't train on a tourist visa, then you can't and if you get busted and deported, well hey don't come crying on forums. But as usual in the US, what should be simple gets burdened under an unbelievable amount of bureaucracy. And in the end, those suffering are the small flight schools.
I don't know how difficult it would be for a US citizen to come and train in France...
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In Switzerland you show up at the school and you start flying same day, no Visa required.....but I still like aviation in the US way better!
 
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