Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours ...

Tworotor7

Well-Known Member
As most of you are noticing there is some movement finally starting to show in our industry again. With Regionals like Eagle, Air Wisconsin, Colgan to name a few...
With that said, I figured maybe its about time to throw in a few applications and try this 121 world before that door closes again for a few years.

My background in aviation started somewhat when I was in the Air Force as a B1 Bomber Crew Chief few years ago. After getting out of active duty and saving some money I decided on ATP to get my ratings back in 06/07...few months later I'm sitting with my CFI/CFII/MEI. Ill be honest, the program at ATP worked and was as described but with a few minor setbacks.
I ended up busting my:

1. Private Multi for the short field landing--Floated to far down the runway.
2. MEI (Which was done as CFI Initial)--Teaching VMC Demo I had a little nervousness and forgetfulness...put down the gear when configuring for it. Split second realized oops and retracted the gear and started over. Completed it without a problem. But as soon as I landed when the checkride was over the DPE said I failed for that and the next morning I went up and did it again and passed.
3. CFII--Teaching holds...Basically stumbled on entry and didn't teach wind correction that well. Passed again next day.

Now I don't take these busts lightly, and this post isn't meant to make excuses about them or about the DPE or instructor. I take full responsibility and learned from them.

Fast forward few years...almost 3000 hrs total time / 900 Multi (500 of which is turbine PIC).
I still instruct some what (about 1800 total instructor time) but now mostly fly a Corporate King Air and Cirrus.

Flying Corporate has been great and really it has always mainly been my goal besides flying for the Border Patrol. But with movement at the 121 level like I mentioned earlier I figure why not try this...maybe Ill like it? So I go ahead and throw my applications in and get interview offers.

First one is American Eagle this past April. I went down to Dallas and really the interview couldn't have gone any better...Sim and Tech went excellent. All until HR showed up saying I didn't cut it due to new policy changes. (No more then 3 Checkride failures)
Air Wisconsin calls for interview early September offering me an interview knowing about the 3 checkride failures I had. I gladly accept and few days prior my mother goes to the hospital for a mild heart attack so I had to decline and ask for another date. Few weeks later HR calls (they are very nice I may add) saying unfortunately they now have a policy change and cant interview anyone with 3 or more also.
Fast forward to today. Colgan calls, asks about my info for an interview in a week...I tell her about the 3 busts and she tells me at this time cannot interview anyone with 3 or more also.

So here I am, 26 years old, wiser, smarter, better looking :laff:, hell of a better pilot then I was at 250 hours, King Air Initial and Recurrent training the past 2 years, and no violations/failures since.
I cannot even get a single interview :(
Just feeling if this is going to be the case, I may never get anywhere in this career like I thought I would because of my past part 61 primary failures.

Not really sure what I'm looking for in this post...just needed to get it off my chest. I'm sure I'm not the only one in this situation.
Does anyone think this 3 checkride failure stuff is the new norm or just the norm right now being so many of us looking for work? eh I hope so.

Happy Flying
 
Just the way things are now I guess.

A side effect of this is that it no longer makes sense to take any checkride you don't need if you work in aviation. The only ride that I busted was glider CFI. I hope this doesn't scare people out of glider or balloon ratings, but at least temporarily, that is the new reality. Isn't really worth the risk. Particularly for CFI rides, because you might bust one just because an examiner needs to me a quota for failures.
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

I got my SE COMM/CFI ride comin up on Thursday and since im already sitting on 2 busts, I'm not sure what to do. I have my COMM ME and MEI...would love to hear what you guys think I should do. Is it worth the risk?
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

its a little late now, but as a rule, if you do something on a checkride that will cause it to be a failure the examiner must tell you at that moment that you have failed. It is then your decision whether to continue or end the ride at that point. Wish you had had a descent instructor. Your butt would have been saved on that one.
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

Who says that regional airline flying is the only thing in Aviation to make a career out of?
I don't fly a jet, but I make more money than a lot of people who do.

It's good to have goals, but in any business, let alone this one, you have to be willing to give, not just take along that path towards your goal.
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

Same situation here man. It really does suck, but keep in mind its all about supply and demand. I have to say this policy makes zero sense. Imagine how many doctors have taken the MCAT more than once, how many lawyers have taken the LCAT more than once, or how many accountants have taken the CPA test more than once. I know the colgan crash has caused this policy, but if you look at the real reason behind that plane crash it had nothing to do with a private pilot check ride. The only lesson the regional’s learned from the crash is, don’t hire anyone with 3 or more check ride failures, nothing about rest policy, nothing about pay, nothing about QOL, and nothing about improving training. I know a lot of people in the same situation, and I must say they are some of the best pilots I have flown with. In my opinion they are missing out on some good pilots with this new policy.
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

Who says that regional airline flying is the only thing in Aviation to make a career out of?
I don't fly a jet, but I make more money than a lot of people who do.

It's good to have goals, but in any business, let alone this one, you have to be willing to give, not just take along that path towards your goal.


I don't think that's the point. It may not be the only thing out there but it is one of the things out there, and it seems now the more checkrides you present yourself for, the more chance you have to damage your career if you're having an off day.
 
I don't think that's the point. It may not be the only thing out there but it is one of the things out there, and it seems now the more checkrides you present yourself for, the more chance you have to damage your career if you're having an off day.

Classic case of unintended consequences. I still do think there should be scrutiny for a large number of checkride busts (interviews would be the best place for that). On the other hand, an Air Force fighter pilot with 10,000 hours my have trouble getting a job at a regional if he busted a private and instrument ride when he was 16...

common sense should hopefully prevail in the end, but that may take time. Once the glut of pilots dries up it probably will.
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

I'm sorry, and no offense, but how do you fail a private multi for a short field landing, did you float it forever???? You have both engines, so you just land. Who was your examiner?? Make it public so that they'll never get an applicant again.
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

I'm sorry, and no offense, but how do you fail a private multi for a short field landing, did you float it forever???? You have both engines, so you just land. Who was your examiner?? Make it public so that they'll never get an applicant again.

I thought it was to be honest and I thought I landed it spot on. Then he looked at me and said no good..
Steve Martin is the name
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

Sorry to hear man,

Typical knee jerk reaction, hope this changes when demand picks up. Sounds like you're definitely a better pilot. Hang in there and keep flying.
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

Thanks all... and good luck to the rest of you
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

Classic case of unintended consequences. I still do think there should be scrutiny for a large number of checkride busts (interviews would be the best place for that). On the other hand, an Air Force fighter pilot with 10,000 hours my have trouble getting a job at a regional if he busted a private and instrument ride when he was 16...

common sense should hopefully prevail in the end, but that may take time. Once the glut of pilots dries up it probably will.

I am now curious what the rationale was for each of these entities to decide on this magical number 3. It doesn't seem absurd; it is absurd. This policy is analogous to absolutely nothing logical.

In your specific situation, you have one "bust" as a manipulator of the controls and two "busts" in instructional situations which for me is far too subjective a situation. Ludicrious.

The checkride failures should be only a portion of the whole pilot consideration for 121 selection. Kneejerk reaction.

Sorry to hear that. Makes me wanna right a letter/email verbalizing my dissatisfaction with the policy.

Matter of fact, I'm drafting one now.
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

Bad approaches make for bad landings. That's just one possibility.
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

I am now curious what the rationale was for each of these entities to decide on this magical number 3. It doesn't seem absurd; it is absurd. This policy is analogous to absolutely nothing logical.

If I had to bet, I'd say it was some sort of "three strikes and you're out" policy.

The logical subsequent question would be why they came up with three strikes and not four or two when the rules of baseball were being developed - that's beyond my area of expertise, but I can't help but notice that people seem to have some sort of subconscious obsession with the number three.
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

A side effect of this is that it no longer makes sense to take any checkride you don't need if you work in aviation. The only ride that I busted was glider CFI. I hope this doesn't scare people out of glider or balloon ratings, but at least temporarily, that is the new reality. Isn't really worth the risk. Particularly for CFI rides, because you might bust one just because an examiner needs to me a quota for failures.
I guess when I did my glider ratings I just never thought bout the possibility of a failed checkride. I was in no hurry to get it done so I made sure I was 10x more prepared for the checkrides then I needed to be so that my chance of failure was very small.
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

It's really hard to tell since many changes are occurring with the requirements of The ATP, new rest rules, etc. But in my nonprofessional opinion. I see it going away real soon when the supply begins to shrink. Which I honestly see happening in the next 2-4 years with many majors showing signs of expansion. For I stance Virgin America is buying 60 new planes plus the amount of pilots American will need in the next few years. Also isn't Emerates still hiring and 65 coming into a factor, etc. So if the others follow suit and expand like some of the ones are indicating I can really see the shortage coming and the supply drying up. I give this 2 checkride failure thing until the end of 2011 and wouldn't be surprised if it goes away after that.
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

The checkride failures should be only a portion of the whole pilot consideration for 121 selection. Kneejerk reaction.

Sorry to hear that. Makes me wanna right a letter/email verbalizing my dissatisfaction with the policy.

Matter of fact, I'm drafting one now.

The problem is that 121 carriers are afraid of the media's reaction if there was an incident involving a pilot that had numerous check ride busts. In the view of the media and public, that makes them a bad pilot. :dunno:
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

Fast forward few years...almost 3000 hrs total time / 900 Multi (500 of which is turbine PIC).
I still instruct some what (about 1800 total instructor time) but now mostly fly a Corporate King Air and Cirrus.

Totally off topic, but why on earth would you have this kind of experience and want to go fly for a regional?

If I were you, I'd be thankful I'd busted so many rides. It's what's keeping you from messing up your life ;)
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

Does anyone know where this information is recorded? How far back do records go?
 
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