Pacific Wings

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Well lets just say they don't care at all and when you do try to stand up even as a group they fired they have fired 8 people at once one time. It is just a bad place, when you have to call a phone number to get the schedule for the next day and some times it does not come out till midnight for the next day and you find out you have a show time in 4 hours. you guys can discuss the legality on that one.
 
Re: Career WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blackhawk said:
I think it would be very, very difficult to legally enforce this, especially if they fired you for doing the right thing.
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This. Normally training contracts kick in if you try to leave before your contract expires. I haven't heard of one where you have to pay if you get fired or let go for another reason like economic hardship. I'm sure that would never hold up in court.

I have heard bad things about this company from other pilots as well. At my last interview 2 pilots came from Pacific Wings. One was working out of Gerogia, the other was out of Hawaii I think.
 
Re: Career WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hrjet said:
Why would an airline, force you to fly through severe ice? And why would they fire you if the planes aren't equiped for ice? That's a big class action lawsuit waiting to happen. And are there trained and ready pilots lined up to take your spot, seems to me with what has been said they'd have trouble finding pilots. It would also seem to me that most of the pilots would be gone since I would imagine every flight in the winter months would get some kind of ICE. Just doesn't make much sense, at some point it's cheaper to keep pilots than fire especially since word is out that PW is a horrible operation.
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You would be surprised at what goes on at a lot of companies. PW has some pretty insane things go on with them, but they are not the only ones at all. When I worked at a certain cargo operator, I was asked to do a lot of things that were ranged from borderline not legal, to "are you freaking kidding me?" and I'm still amazed they have not been sued by a lot of people. At another company that I left one of the Captains I flew with got fired for turning down a trip to certain airport when the runway was closed and they were landing on the taxiway. They were using Lears, so you can imagine the idiocy of this. I swear on all that is holy I AM NOT KIDDING, PM me if you want me to elaborate, but that's the gist of it. He thought about suing them and for some reason chosen not to. Ultimately all that happened to this company when the FAA found out was their POI got fired.

Not a lot of people are willing to pursue legal action even when they have every right to be. I wish more pilots would stick up for themselves and not work for crappy operators, but they all have stacks upon stacks of resumes of pilots that will do anything to get "just the experience." At my last company I had found out a few people applied for my job as a Lear FO and said they would work for free "just to get the experience" and thankfully the CP threw those resumes out. But I was raging pissed when I found out that these people were out there to begin with and I have no problem doing whatever I could to blackball suck people.

Bottom line: these companies do some of this stuff because they can. And with the economy so bad, these bottom feeders can get away with a lot because everyone is hurting so bad for work. All we can do is get the word out about this, and thank God aviation is such a small world. Thank God again for Doug and this site which allows all of us to get the word out about this stuff. We work in an insane industry which makes little sense often, and all we can do is try to fight to make it better when and where we can.
 
Re: Career WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Callador said:
This. Normally training contracts kick in if you try to leave before your contract expires. I haven't heard of one where you have to pay if you get fired or let go for another reason like economic hardship. I'm sure that would never hold up in court.

I have heard bad things about this company from other pilots as well. At my last interview 2 pilots came from Pacific Wings. One was working out of Gerogia, the other was out of Hawaii I think.
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Could you imagine how some of these operators would do things if this were not the case? Hire someone, keep them 1 day shy of a year, terminate them so they loose their money, hire a new pilot, repeat.
 
Re: Career WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Number1atNumber2 said:
You would be surprised at what goes on at a lot of companies. PW has some pretty insane things go on with them, but they are not the only ones at all. When I worked at a certain cargo operator, I was asked to do a lot of things that were ranged from borderline not legal, to "are you freaking kidding me?" and I'm still amazed they have not been sued by a lot of people. At another company that I left one of the Captains I flew with got fired for turning down a trip to certain airport when the runway was closed and they were landing on the taxiway. They were using Lears, so you can imagine the idiocy of this. I swear on all that is holy I AM NOT KIDDING, PM me if you want me to elaborate, but that's the gist of it. He thought about suing them and for some reason chosen not to. Ultimately all that happened to this company when the FAA found out was their POI got fired.

Not a lot of people are willing to pursue legal action even when they have every right to be. I wish more pilots would stick up for themselves and not work for crappy operators, but they all have stacks upon stacks of resumes of pilots that will do anything to get "just the experience." At my last company I had found out a few people applied for my job as a Lear FO and said they would work for free "just to get the experience" and thankfully the CP threw those resumes out. But I was raging pissed when I found out that these people were out there to begin with and I have no problem doing whatever I could to blackball suck people.

Bottom line: these companies do some of this stuff because they can. And with the economy so bad, these bottom feeders can get away with a lot because everyone is hurting so bad for work. All we can do is get the word out about this, and thank God aviation is such a small world. Thank God again for Doug and this site which allows all of us to get the word out about this stuff. We work in an insane industry which makes little sense often, and all we can do is try to fight to make it better when and where we can.
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I realize that there are shady ops out there but in this case, this is not a cargo op or a pt91 op this is an airline, responsible for many people. A cargo op is different, the boxes are insured and the pt91 guy, well he can do whatever he wants with his plane and his pilot. If I was an owner, what possible benefit would there be to fly my airplanes through ice when they could come crashing down killing many people, so it just doesn't make any sense to fire a pilot for not trying to fly through "severe" ice with planes not capable of flying through ice. Just saying there might be more to the story.
 
Snagged this from a friend, when you get an interview they send you a FAQ, this is in it.
"What is the pro-rated training contract?
This is an $8,000.00 training contract with the airline. The contract is 12 months in length. Should you leave
employment (voluntary or involuntary) prior to the end of the 12-month period, you will be required to pay the
balance of the contract. The balance due on the contact will decrease by 1/12th every 30 days of employment
following the date you pass your check ride with Pacific Wings LLC."

Didn't know if any1 would be interested
 
Re: Career WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hrjet said:
Just saying there might be more to the story.
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You admit that you know nothing about them, then suggest that confirmed reports from mere serf pilots (and fellow members of this site) must be lies. I've seen their airplanes coming in to ATL in moderate icing conditions with black paint on their wings, presumably to make it look like they had boots. Regardless of the intention of the paint, there were no boots on those airplanes. NMA/GeorgiaSkies/PacificWings/Whatever else they're calling themselves these days flagrantly break the law, and expect their employees to do the same. They routinely violate both the spirit and the letter of the FARs, they pay next to nothing, and they treat their employees like indentured servants. That's the whole story.

Whoever turns in a resume to these bozos deserves what they get. Don't come whining to me for sympathy when you're living in a dog house washing dishes because you got violated.
 
Re: Career WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I heard that Pacific Wings likes when their pilots get violated once, that means they won't leave for a while and are desperate to keep their job.
 
Approx 2003 I did a phone interview with PW. I terminated the call before it was finished.

IIRC, there was the 12 month "training contract" although I don't remember the $ amount. The pilot duties included working the counter and ramp. In fact, (it took some prodding for them to admit this) the pilots spend more hours working the counter than in the air due to pilot rotation. All this for what was basically $8.00/hour. And no relocation or housing assistance or even getting yourself to the interview. When I say "assistance", I mean not even advising where to look for rental housing.

So, before the phone call was even finished I concluded PW would be a very bad experience.

In spite of my advice, a friend applied to PW when they first came to NM (2006?). He made it through the interview and into ground school. He quit the 2nd day. The contract coupled with what he found out abut the operations caused him to head back home that very day. He didn't sign the contract.
 
Re: Career WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Boris Badenov said:
You admit that you know nothing about them, then suggest that confirmed reports from mere serf pilots (and fellow members of this site) must be lies. I've seen their airplanes coming in to ATL in moderate icing conditions with black paint on their wings, presumably to make it look like they had boots. Regardless of the intention of the paint, there were no boots on those airplanes. NMA/GeorgiaSkies/PacificWings/Whatever else they're calling themselves these days flagrantly break the law, and expect their employees to do the same. They routinely violate both the spirit and the letter of the FARs, they pay next to nothing, and they treat their employees like indentured servants. That's the whole story.

Whoever turns in a resume to these bozos deserves what they get. Don't come whining to me for sympathy when you're living in a dog house washing dishes because you got violated.
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Who said anything about lies? Just said there might be more to the story. And are you suggesting that the FAA knows that this op paints their wings to make it look like they can fly through ice and the FAA allows it happen???? This is just a case of the operation being so bad that it's unbelievable that it could be that bad.
 
Re: Career WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hrjet said:
Who said anything about lies? Just said there might be more to the story. And are you suggesting that the FAA knows that this op paints their wings to make it look like they can fly through ice and the FAA allows it happen???? This is just a case of the operation being so bad that it's unbelievable that it could be that bad.
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Yes, the FAA could very well know that they are doing this, but they don't do anything about it. Remember, they usually work with the local FAA (POI/PMI). They have a working relationship set up that normally benefits the company. PW doesn't tell them, hey we painted the wings to look like boots, is that cool? If they did that they would get in trouble. PW instead doesn't say anything. If asked, they would just say that they chose to paint it that way for looks, nothing else. Now, IF the local FAA guys wanted to get them in trouble, they would have to prove that they are flying in icing etc... so it makes it harder to do.

I don't know much about PW, just what some people tell me about it. I do know 121/135 ops in the Carribean, and you see many shades of gray. The local FAA guys are in tbe business of keeping a business running. Now if people start to call the FAA hotline complaning, mechanics and pilots especially, the FAA (larger office) will come take a look at it. When they do, then stuff can hit the fan. I've seen companies lose their POI/PMI overnight, and they are replaced with new guys out of a larger office.

So again, I don't know Boris personally, but what he and others are saying doesn't surprise me at all. Plenty of companies operate like this. Listen to these guys, they have tons of 135 experience and have seen it all.
 
Re: Career WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hrjet said:
Who said anything about lies? Just said there might be more to the story. And are you suggesting that the FAA knows that this op paints their wings to make it look like they can fly through ice and the FAA allows it happen???? This is just a case of the operation being so bad that it's unbelievable that it could be that bad.
Click to expand...

Ha ha, you must be new to the wonderful world of shady 135 operators. Yes, it can and is that bad with some companies.
 
Re: Career WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hrjet said:
Why would an airline, force you to fly through severe ice? And why would they fire you if the planes aren't equiped for ice? That's a big class action lawsuit waiting to happen. And are there trained and ready pilots lined up to take your spot, seems to me with what has been said they'd have trouble finding pilots. It would also seem to me that most of the pilots would be gone since I would imagine every flight in the winter months would get some kind of ICE. Just doesn't make much sense, at some point it's cheaper to keep pilots than fire especially since word is out that PW is a horrible operation.
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why would they??? because it affects their bottom line. if the flight dont go, they lose out on a few thousand from the govt. The planes were equipped for ice. The planes in georgia arent (one is I know) and they scud run out there to stay out of it. the PIC and I decided it wasnt safe to go even though it was legal. well... i guess not entirely legal either. according to the caravan icing chart in the POH our altitude put us into area C of that chart. Area C is a no go for anyone that flies a caravan. Ever taken a caravan in anything more than light ice? It sucks... the ice dont shed and it flies like crap. why do you think there is an entire course for icing for one particular airplane??? Numerous pilot reports of bad icing that day... one severe ice report from a caravan (our company) that just came back from our route of flight. that combined with the fact that radio coverage along our route is shoddy (not on an airway), mountainous terrain, approaches to mins, restricted routing due to numerous restricted areas, snow forecast, ice forecast, and the fact that wx was getting worse and not forecast to get any better, all combined into a decision to not risk the aircraft, the 3 pax, and our tickets and lives. If there was any kind of emergency there was not much of a way out.

They didnt even ask me if I wanted to fly the trip. Ive never canceled before. The PIC made the call and I backed her up. I had no failed checkrides, went the extra mile for the company, positive performance reviews, and was well liked by my peers and the chief pilot.

The result... IMMEDIATE TERMINATION.

Any company that does this is just crap... dont risk it. If you do decide to go PW just get the lube ready.

I transferred to a 135 freight company and now I am "allowed" to make my own calls.. "allowed" to write up whatever I want when its broken, and all in all just make PIC decisions.
 
Re: Career WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

turd jay said:
why would they??? because it affects their bottom line. if the flight dont go, they lose out on a few thousand from the govt. The planes were equipped for ice. The planes in georgia arent (one is I know) and they scud run out there to stay out of it. the PIC and I decided it wasnt safe to go even though it was legal. well... i guess not entirely legal either. according to the caravan icing chart in the POH our altitude put us into area C of that chart. Area C is a no go for anyone that flies a caravan. Ever taken a caravan in anything more than light ice? It sucks... the ice dont shed and it flies like crap. why do you think there is an entire course for icing for one particular airplane??? Numerous pilot reports of bad icing that day... one severe ice report from a caravan (our company) that just came back from our route of flight. that combined with the fact that radio coverage along our route is shoddy (not on an airway), mountainous terrain, approaches to mins, restricted routing due to numerous restricted areas, snow forecast, ice forecast, and the fact that wx was getting worse and not forecast to get any better, all combined into a decision to not risk the aircraft, the 3 pax, and our tickets and lives. If there was any kind of emergency there was not much of a way out.

They didnt even ask me if I wanted to fly the trip. Ive never canceled before. The PIC made the call and I backed her up. I had no failed checkrides, went the extra mile for the company, positive performance reviews, and was well liked by my peers and the chief pilot.

The result... IMMEDIATE TERMINATION.

s.
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Wow. That sucks. It's hard to believe that they would put their pilots/passengers in harms way like that.
 
Re: Career WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hrjet said:
Wow. That sucks. It's hard to believe that they would put their pilots/passengers in harms way like that.
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yup it does suck.. thankfully I dont work there anymore. That story has been hard for many to believe but I did not make it up.

If anyone wants to go to PW feel free to PM me and I will try to set your head straight.
 
Places like these are laughable. How do they enforce this "training contract"? Do they make you pay up front, or do they withhold it from your "check"?

If I worked there and they ask me to do something that I thought, legal or not, could kill me I would say, no. Then they would fire me. Then I would file for unemployment. Maybe I would call the POI, who would say: "we don't get involved in management issues, we just violate you if you break FARs". That would be about it.

But pay them for a training contract? Really, even if it went to court, and somehow someway they won a judgement, that does not mean they can collect. Sounds to me like these guys are scofflaws, so I wouldn't worry about it one way or the other. These scumbags abuse people because they play on their personal honor or fear of a "training contract".
 
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