The Gardener
Terrafirma Phobic
Ok, I'll roll with that.
Then to the OP, why would you choose this school? It's your money, why are you wasting it?
Worst CFI You Have Had
- Thread starter njdem82
- Start date
Ok, I'll roll with that.
Then to the OP, why would you choose this school? It's your money, why are you wasting it?
Hi all. thanks for sharing your stories.
My descent profile was low , instead of coming in at a steep descent I would come in on a low descent (I dropped power too low and early and put full flaps in too early) and then bump some power in to get the few extra feet and hit my point which , understandably , my instructor did not like. But he also did not do anything to help me fix the problem except for telling me it was wrong and insulting me when he was in the mood to do so. So on the check ride I did not cheat with power (though I don't understand why its called cheating) and ended up short of the thousand footers , I should have used power as it would have still been PTS (I think) as long as I hit my point. But its good that I did not since I've had my new instructor it has been becoming easier and easier to do them the right way --but I would be grateful for any suggestions for short fields any maneuvers or general tips in a Beechcraft Duchess BE-76
as I had not flown this aircraft until yesterday and will get back in on Monday. I will be reading the POH and other material until then, did my multi training in a seminole but India requires ten hours in another airplane except a seminole (no logic behind this rule in case anyone is looking for some). I know they accept a piper seneca and I hope they accept a duchess as well , I have posted that question in the expat section.
This is basically my case as well my ppl single and multi and instrument for same went very well. I was not arrogant or anything like that because of this as this is the case for most people but felt good as an aviator. However all of that disappeared when I started commercial and had a new instructor. I understand that comm is harder but if my instructor demonstrated that he actually cared , invested in my sucess and I failed then ,so be it, nothing can be done it was his indifference which makes me feel that flying with him was a waste of time and money. These issues and far beyond are being addressed now as I had to get a 10 hour block anyway for Indian requirements . Most of that block will likely be used for advanced training and just regaining my confidence and proficiency.
I had no reason to think that I was wasting money at this school since my first instructor, the other instructors who were extremely helpful and the general atmosphere was great. My initial instructor he helped me identify and fix alot of problems with my flying and saw me through up to commercial. Until commercial I was getting my ratings and more importantly on every flight I was isolating deficiencies, learning from mistakes , pushing the limit a little and just generally becoming a more proficient and safe pilot. That all went stale toward the end but I thought I could just see myself through , turned out I was wrong but until that point I did not feel that I had made a wrong choice. If I had just opened my mouth and changed my instructor I believe that the situation would have remained positive but I wanted them to hire me and thought this would have a negative impact on my chances , in hindsight ofcourse I should have done exactly that , very early on in comm traning.
My descent profile was low , instead of coming in at a steep descent I would come in on a low descent (I dropped power too low and early and put full flaps in too early) and then bump some power in to get the few extra feet and hit my point which , understandably , my instructor did not like. But he also did not do anything to help me fix the problem except for telling me it was wrong and insulting me when he was in the mood to do so. So on the check ride I did not cheat with power (though I don't understand why its called cheating) and ended up short of the thousand footers , I should have used power as it would have still been PTS (I think) as long as I hit my point. But its good that I did not since I've had my new instructor it has been becoming easier and easier to do them the right way --but I would be grateful for any suggestions for short fields any maneuvers or general tips in a Beechcraft Duchess BE-76
as I had not flown this aircraft until yesterday and will get back in on Monday. I will be reading the POH and other material until then, did my multi training in a seminole but India requires ten hours in another airplane except a seminole (no logic behind this rule in case anyone is looking for some). I know they accept a piper seneca and I hope they accept a duchess as well , I have posted that question in the expat section.
This is basically my case as well my ppl single and multi and instrument for same went very well. I was not arrogant or anything like that because of this as this is the case for most people but felt good as an aviator. However all of that disappeared when I started commercial and had a new instructor. I understand that comm is harder but if my instructor demonstrated that he actually cared , invested in my sucess and I failed then ,so be it, nothing can be done it was his indifference which makes me feel that flying with him was a waste of time and money. These issues and far beyond are being addressed now as I had to get a 10 hour block anyway for Indian requirements . Most of that block will likely be used for advanced training and just regaining my confidence and proficiency.
I had no reason to think that I was wasting money at this school since my first instructor, the other instructors who were extremely helpful and the general atmosphere was great. My initial instructor he helped me identify and fix alot of problems with my flying and saw me through up to commercial. Until commercial I was getting my ratings and more importantly on every flight I was isolating deficiencies, learning from mistakes , pushing the limit a little and just generally becoming a more proficient and safe pilot. That all went stale toward the end but I thought I could just see myself through , turned out I was wrong but until that point I did not feel that I had made a wrong choice. If I had just opened my mouth and changed my instructor I believe that the situation would have remained positive but I wanted them to hire me and thought this would have a negative impact on my chances , in hindsight ofcourse I should have done exactly that , very early on in comm traning.
Ajax
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The first flight school I went to was mostly a miserable experience after I got my PPL. My first instructor out there was great and I keep in touch with him. However, once he left I got moved to another instructor and it was never fun. It seemed like all he wanted to do was let me know that he was a much better pilot than I was. On a typical 1 hour flight I would have the controls for maybe 30 minutes. The whole experience out there was pretty rough, though.
My school had outsourced it's ground school to a local technical college and we were considered the "spoiled rich kids" so everyone hated us. I once asked an instructor a question about multi-engine aerodynamics, I realize I was only a private pilot at the time but I was still curious...his response "You go to Baylor, why the [expletive] should I answer you." If you were a Baylor student and didn't have boobs it was impossible to get on the schedule more than once a week, and whenever you did all they did was harass you for it. Most of us left that school and went to another. My experience at the other school couldn't possibly be better. I fly as much as I want here.
What I tell friends that are struggling with their school is that if you are having such a bad time that you dread your flight lessons, change schools. I wish I had done it earlier...I lost about a years worth of useful training and wasted more money than I'm willing to admit.
My school had outsourced it's ground school to a local technical college and we were considered the "spoiled rich kids" so everyone hated us. I once asked an instructor a question about multi-engine aerodynamics, I realize I was only a private pilot at the time but I was still curious...his response "You go to Baylor, why the [expletive] should I answer you." If you were a Baylor student and didn't have boobs it was impossible to get on the schedule more than once a week, and whenever you did all they did was harass you for it. Most of us left that school and went to another. My experience at the other school couldn't possibly be better. I fly as much as I want here.
What I tell friends that are struggling with their school is that if you are having such a bad time that you dread your flight lessons, change schools. I wish I had done it earlier...I lost about a years worth of useful training and wasted more money than I'm willing to admit.
ryan1234
Desensitized Member
Shortfields are all about airspeed and being able to manage energy through the ground effect. You've heard it a bunch before... carry too much energy and you'll float, not enough and you'll land short.
The advantage to bringing power in and maintaining your airspeed is that you're at an angle of attack that will bleed the extra "energy" quickly from the ground effect when you pull the power.
"Cheating" in a say, a Seneca, for a short field would be coming in too fast and taking out the flaps to touch your spot... but all the same it's not really 'cheating' - just a different 'method'
DaveC
Well-Known Member
I've had to clean up some bad habits from students after their previous instructor taught them to do turns about a point by aiming the wing at the center point through the entire maneuver. That and they were under the impression that power got you out of a stall.
I just want to clarify some things , originally I had responded to three quotes but when I submitted it my wireless internet connection went out (as it often does since its a hotel network) and all of the information was lost.
I was assigned this instructor and should have changed it , I guess I did not want to rock the boat as I felt like commercial would be a breeze anyway and as a previous poster mentioned there is not much new to learn on the commercial level , by then you should have figured it out. As to that I did not need introductions but one or two tips on how to better my steep turns or something could not have hurt as I had just gotten off of 2 months whcih I had to take off and a month of instrument flying.
So what I did not need was to feel that I had lost the ability to perform at the commercial level. However that is what I got , not one word of positive encouragement or "just keep working it you'll get" something like that. Perhaps it is childish to complain about such things but at the end of the day we do not want to feel that we are no longer good at something which I considered myself good at due to alot of hard work. Especially if no solutions are even discussed , if someone tells me that my slow flight sucks but then goes on to explain how I might improve it then it is constructive criticism though ofcourse there are better ways to go about it.
Just pushing your ego onto someone and telling them that you were considered the best student and got through the program with very little trouble is not at all helpful. Why does it have to be that way with some people , the Captains that I have known as family friends were not cocky or arrogant they just did their job and knew that they were good at it. I'm sure they used the fact that they were captains to pick up a girl here and there but I couldn't imagine them using it to put someone down, thats just plain mean especially since the experience of being a student is still fresh, I would think that would (and often does) promote the humility of a competent person. Most people who are really good at something don't carry on reinforcing that idea they have pride and hold their head high but you would not know why unless you asked,
I think it was a very destructive attitude. Again just so I don't give the wrong idea I am not going after anyone , I failed my check ride (which I felt ready for) by myself twice. That stings as even failing a check ride once is bad enough twice much worse and after three times I don't think I would even deserve the license at that point.
Until I myself do it I cannot imagine what its like to be a CFI. At my previous school they worked like dogs , ridiculously long days , but they build hours very fast. Something is sacrificed in there, I wish being a CFI was considered as noble of a profession as it is the staple of the pilot training world. The idea that it is a stepping stone is very bad for morale and not conducive to bringing out that 110% we always look for. I have always had deep respect for CFI's. That respect is what makes me look at the few bad ones even more critically as they have a tradition to preserve.
My only problem with this particular CFI indifference he had towards me and his role as a CFI as well as the egotistical statements that were meant to be out downs , nothing else. I have about a decade of experience in the steel industry and know what it means to initially be underappreciated and overworked but the corporate culture of steel companies has nothing on flight schools in terms of aggresiveness and backstabbing. I gues if I cant trust someone then they cannot be a good CFI regardless of whether my suspicions had merit . In this case , just today, I found out that my suspicions were true.
Thanks again all , I hope the stories keep coming. This post in no way is meant as disrespect to CFI's and I will be very proud to enter your ranks , at which point all of you have to buy me a beer , or do I have to buy you all one , don't know how that works
I hope I explained myself a little better, pls let me know if you have any questions
Have a good night and a great weekend fellas.
I was assigned this instructor and should have changed it , I guess I did not want to rock the boat as I felt like commercial would be a breeze anyway and as a previous poster mentioned there is not much new to learn on the commercial level , by then you should have figured it out. As to that I did not need introductions but one or two tips on how to better my steep turns or something could not have hurt as I had just gotten off of 2 months whcih I had to take off and a month of instrument flying.
So what I did not need was to feel that I had lost the ability to perform at the commercial level. However that is what I got , not one word of positive encouragement or "just keep working it you'll get" something like that. Perhaps it is childish to complain about such things but at the end of the day we do not want to feel that we are no longer good at something which I considered myself good at due to alot of hard work. Especially if no solutions are even discussed , if someone tells me that my slow flight sucks but then goes on to explain how I might improve it then it is constructive criticism though ofcourse there are better ways to go about it.
Just pushing your ego onto someone and telling them that you were considered the best student and got through the program with very little trouble is not at all helpful. Why does it have to be that way with some people , the Captains that I have known as family friends were not cocky or arrogant they just did their job and knew that they were good at it. I'm sure they used the fact that they were captains to pick up a girl here and there but I couldn't imagine them using it to put someone down, thats just plain mean especially since the experience of being a student is still fresh, I would think that would (and often does) promote the humility of a competent person. Most people who are really good at something don't carry on reinforcing that idea they have pride and hold their head high but you would not know why unless you asked,
I think it was a very destructive attitude. Again just so I don't give the wrong idea I am not going after anyone , I failed my check ride (which I felt ready for) by myself twice. That stings as even failing a check ride once is bad enough twice much worse and after three times I don't think I would even deserve the license at that point.
Until I myself do it I cannot imagine what its like to be a CFI. At my previous school they worked like dogs , ridiculously long days , but they build hours very fast. Something is sacrificed in there, I wish being a CFI was considered as noble of a profession as it is the staple of the pilot training world. The idea that it is a stepping stone is very bad for morale and not conducive to bringing out that 110% we always look for. I have always had deep respect for CFI's. That respect is what makes me look at the few bad ones even more critically as they have a tradition to preserve.
My only problem with this particular CFI indifference he had towards me and his role as a CFI as well as the egotistical statements that were meant to be out downs , nothing else. I have about a decade of experience in the steel industry and know what it means to initially be underappreciated and overworked but the corporate culture of steel companies has nothing on flight schools in terms of aggresiveness and backstabbing. I gues if I cant trust someone then they cannot be a good CFI regardless of whether my suspicions had merit . In this case , just today, I found out that my suspicions were true.
Thanks again all , I hope the stories keep coming. This post in no way is meant as disrespect to CFI's and I will be very proud to enter your ranks , at which point all of you have to buy me a beer , or do I have to buy you all one , don't know how that works
I hope I explained myself a little better, pls let me know if you have any questions
Have a good night and a great weekend fellas.
Outlaw2097
New Member
Had an fill in instructor with a last name that just came off as...jerky.
Anyhow he proceeds to make me feel stupid with another student in back observing (gotcha questions, doubting my preflight even though I was already rated for the plane), and of course wanting to redo a lesson. Thought he was just having a bad day or whatever, but I got the same service two more times, decided to just sit on my hands until my regular instructor came back.
Guy watching from the back agreed with my opinion of the fill in.
Anyhow he proceeds to make me feel stupid with another student in back observing (gotcha questions, doubting my preflight even though I was already rated for the plane), and of course wanting to redo a lesson. Thought he was just having a bad day or whatever, but I got the same service two more times, decided to just sit on my hands until my regular instructor came back.
Guy watching from the back agreed with my opinion of the fill in.
amjon
Pilot and A Half (for now
Nope, I've loved all of my instructors. They are all different, but each good in their own way. They are all calm and relaxed for the most part. One rarely talks, but will point on when you need to do something. I've flown with experienced and new instructors (and questioned some of what they told me to do). One taught me to land (though I really can't point out anything he did different than the others before him).
mooneyguy
been around forever
Had a guy try to teach me to do commercial manuevers by reference to the instruments...not outside visual. This same guy tried to force me to keep training in WX that I felt wasn't suitable at the time (25kt crosswind straight across doing short and soft field in an a pa28-180 arrow...oh yeah with a snow storm closing in within 5 nm). First and last time I ever lost my temper with a cfi. I chewed him a new one.
I heard he was "let go" after I left the school. There is even more from this guy, but thats enough...
I heard he was "let go" after I left the school. There is even more from this guy, but thats enough...
My first instructor was a real peach. On our second flight during the departure, he told me how hungover he was, and kept telling me of some huge party he was at the night before, as if he thought that would make him look cool to me. It did not. On roughly our 4th flight, he got angry that I still used notes to help with my radio work. He wadded up my notes and threw them out the window while yelling at me that "I'll just do the damn radios today". I believe that was our last flight. I hope he had changed his attitude since then.
My second Instructor is tied with another one as one of the best. He was patient, respectful, knowledgable, and didn't treat me as just another hurdle till his airline job. Last I heard he was flying for Scenic Airlines. Wish I had kept in touch.
Most of the other instructors I've had, have been just mediocre. I've noticed that they go through the motions, look bored and don't seem to care if you progress or not. Sad.
My second Instructor is tied with another one as one of the best. He was patient, respectful, knowledgable, and didn't treat me as just another hurdle till his airline job. Last I heard he was flying for Scenic Airlines. Wish I had kept in touch.
Most of the other instructors I've had, have been just mediocre. I've noticed that they go through the motions, look bored and don't seem to care if you progress or not. Sad.
Let me see here. . .I believe I've had probably 8/9 CFI/CFII?MEIs during my short pilot career. One or two were stellar, most were effective, and two I do know stunk. . .and I mean stunk badly.
For the negative instructors, why did I consider them so? Firstly, the two of them never jelled with my learning style or behavior and reacted to my learning style accordingly that I could fully understand what they were trying to teach me. Providing output of information is one thing; ensuring/validating your student is receiving and understanding is something else. The cliche' of "talking TO" someone vice "talking AT" someone comes to mind. You must be able to differentiate between the two.
Not understanding my shortcoming/deficiencies. If I'm making repeated mistakes on a maneuver, identify the problem and provide me with the appropriate corrective action. We/I am a creature of habit; if I'm continually making a mistake, I'm usually making that mistake the same way. Identify it and work to resolve it. I did need to know specifically what I was doing that I can see it, then I'll need help with the resolution.
Specific shortcomings that kept getting repeated during my private training? Shadowing the yoke so much I didn't know who was actually flying the airplane. (So who is REALLY flying?) Saying "no, no" without my knowing what "no" actually was? I did have to remind my instructor I was a grown man; don't treat me like a child. Failure to teach trim early. Not being able to fully understand what they were taught. (I can't read too. As the instructor, they should understand and provide a layperson explanation)
For the negative instructors, why did I consider them so? Firstly, the two of them never jelled with my learning style or behavior and reacted to my learning style accordingly that I could fully understand what they were trying to teach me. Providing output of information is one thing; ensuring/validating your student is receiving and understanding is something else. The cliche' of "talking TO" someone vice "talking AT" someone comes to mind. You must be able to differentiate between the two.
Not understanding my shortcoming/deficiencies. If I'm making repeated mistakes on a maneuver, identify the problem and provide me with the appropriate corrective action. We/I am a creature of habit; if I'm continually making a mistake, I'm usually making that mistake the same way. Identify it and work to resolve it. I did need to know specifically what I was doing that I can see it, then I'll need help with the resolution.
Specific shortcomings that kept getting repeated during my private training? Shadowing the yoke so much I didn't know who was actually flying the airplane. (So who is REALLY flying?) Saying "no, no" without my knowing what "no" actually was? I did have to remind my instructor I was a grown man; don't treat me like a child. Failure to teach trim early. Not being able to fully understand what they were taught. (I can't read too. As the instructor, they should understand and provide a layperson explanation)
Don't know what you guys were flying, but the 150/152 will spin if you just stall it with your feet on the floor. I have never had a problem spinning a 150/152 with nothing other than evelator input and feet on the floor. Now the 172, you have to force it, and even then, it doesn't like it.
I don't think I ever had a "bad" CFI, just a few that I didn't click with. My opinion is that almost all CFIs are competent and knowledgeable but not all "mesh" with certain learning styles.
As a customer, it is the student's responsibility to cut ties if they are not getting what they feel they should out of any CFI.
As a customer, it is the student's responsibility to cut ties if they are not getting what they feel they should out of any CFI.
man, thats freaking outrageous. This guy could kiss his ass good bye at even the first sign of such behaviour.
I got my private pilot training in argentina where I must have flown with 8 to 10 CFIs (you simply flew with the one that was available at the moment) and I've never experienced anything even close to what you described.
I've bad instructors, but mainly because they were excesively passive and wouldnt teach much or anything at all. But none of them ever went off at me I screwed up something.
Man I cant believe how this people forget that flying is fun and should be fun. If they are turning it into a negative experience they have made a TERRIBLE job as a cfi.
Mike H
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by njdem82
My descent profile was low , instead of coming in at a steep descent I would come in on a low descent (I dropped power too low and early and put full flaps in too early) and then bump some power in to get the few extra feet and hit my point which , understandably , my instructor did not like.
While "dragging it in" isn't usually desirable, adjusting power on short final to "hit your spot" on a short field landing is not only acceptable, it's usually necessary. And if it's a really short field, but with no obstacles to worry about, dragging it in might be the only way to do it.
Insults are not only out of line, they're unprofessional
Again, adjusting power is not in any way "cheating".
It's good that you've got a new instructor who you have confidence in. The only suggestion I'd make is to fly the new airplane until you're comfortable and proficient in it and you're also proficient in flying the maneuvers.