"Line up and Wait" by the end of the month!

RRPower

RRPower

Well-Known Member
Didn't see this posted anywhere else so here it is:

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Notice/N7110.536.pdf

Looks like Sept 30 is the go date on this. I personally hate this, but will get used to one day. I like how they have time to change a major procedure like this for no good reason but we are still fighting over flight time limitations. I understand them wanting to be more like ICAO, but how about lobbying Canada to redo their runway markings to stuff we can actually see! Just a rant...Let the comments fly!
 
We already got the read and sign. Every time now we are told to "position and hold" we read it back, then either the CA or I will jokingly say "line up and wait."
 
Interesting. We haven't gotton anything about it yet. But then again, at AWAC, they don't tell us anything until after it has been out for a month or so. I would expect a memo sometime around NOV1 haha.
 
This irks me alot for some reason. It's like a dumbing-down of phraseology. Next they'll change "hold short" to "don't go on the runway", "cleared for takeoff" to "it's okay to takeoff now", and "maintain VFR" to "watch out for clouds."
 
JJ429PA said:
This irks me alot for some reason. It's like a dumbing-down of phraseology. Next they'll change "hold short" to "don't go on the runway", "cleared for takeoff" to "it's okay to takeoff now", and "maintain VFR" to "watch out for clouds."
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Well it's already been said that it's to conform to ICAOism, but you have to remember how many foreign pilots come into the US that don't speak the English language very well. At Dulles I often wonder how the hell anyone understands Open Skies or Aeroflot.

I'm waiting for someone to get cleared by ramp to "Push for a west taxi" and then push and start taxiing west.
 
Well it's already been said that it's to conform to ICAOism, but you have to remember how many foreign pilots come into the US that don't speak the English language very well. At Dulles I often wonder how the hell anyone understands Open Skies or Aeroflot.

I'm waiting for someone to get cleared by ramp to "Push for a west taxi" and then push and start taxiing west.
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Yeah I know it's for ICAO...the wording just bothers me for some reason. I'm just being grumpy.
 
JJ429PA said:
Yeah I know it's for ICAO...the wording just bothers me for some reason. I'm just being grumpy.
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there is nothing wrong with it...nothing at all. The only difference between this and what we say now is the phrase doesn't sounds as grandiose and cool as position and hold. i would wager a lot of people have a problem with that aspect of it.
 
poser765 said:
there is nothing wrong with it...nothing at all. The only difference between this and what we say now is the phrase doesn't sounds as grandiose and cool as position and hold. i would wager a lot of people have a problem with that aspect of it.
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I'll give ya that. However, I think the more pertinent point of the OP is that they have time to muck around with this, but they still can't be bothered with changing flight and duty time requirement- not just after the NTSB has been on them for 20+ years, backed with sound data from the medical community regarding human rest requirements- but now after a horrendous crash and significant lobbying pressure from the families that got congress involved.
 
"Assume take-off position and hold" would be better. It's more accurate.

Line up *where?* and wait *for what?*

Guv'mt. :dunno: This really doesn't have anything to do with me.
 
I think its better (albeit stupid sounding) because "position" and "hold" have other meanings in the official pilot-controller lexicon. That said, I've never been confused over "position and hold," versus "say position and hold south of the vor." Its to align us with countries that don't quite get that whole Engrish thing. This will make it easier for you when you go abroad.
 
Patrick said:
I'll give ya that. However, I think the more pertinent point of the OP is that they have time to muck around with this, but they still can't be bothered with changing flight and duty time requirement- not just after the NTSB has been on them for 20+ years, backed with sound data from the medical community regarding human rest requirements- but now after a horrendous crash and significant lobbying pressure from the families that got congress involved.
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You realize how much money its going to cost companies to change the flight and duty requirements? You know that's got to have something to do with it.
 
ppragman said:
I think its better (albeit stupid sounding) because "position" and "hold" have other meanings in the official pilot-controller lexicon. That said, I've never been confused over "position and hold," versus "say position and hold south of the vor." Its to align us with countries that don't quite get that whole Engrish thing. This will make it easier for you when you go abroad.
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I agree. Other countries have been operating this way for quite some time. Not a big deal. Best to not go kicking and screaming any time someone changes something in aviation; you'll drive yourself crazy. ;)
 
Someday there will be kids that have never heard "pos and hold" and it will make me remember all the salty old dogs who regaled us young guys with stories of PCA's and TRSA's :p
 
///AMG said:
Someday there will be kids that have never heard "pos and hold" and it will make me remember all the salty old dogs who regaled us young guys with stories of PCA's and TRSA's :p
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Or guys that flew the range? Go ahead and try to explain THAT concept to kids these days!
 
///AMG said:
Someday there will be kids that have never heard "pos and hold" and it will make me remember all the salty old dogs who regaled us young guys with stories of PCA's and TRSA's :p
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In twenty years, someone in the FFA will suggest changing it to "taxi into position and hold" and they will get an award for it.
 
Turbine said:
They need to spend their time worrying about more important concerns then phraseology.
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You guys realize that this change probably took a 5 minute meeting of people saying, "Huh, ICAO says what? Yeah we probably want to get in line with it. Hey listen what's Bob doing downstairs? Yeah put him on it, have him just copy the ICAO language into the FAR's and have him let us know when he's done."

*30 minutes later*

"Bob's done? Great, put out a press release."

I mean you guys are acting like this took years of planning by hundreds of people.
 
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