Need help choosing the right plan.

aviatoralex

aviatoralex

Smartass
Ok, I am 14 years old and I live in Greece. I have American Citizenship and as soon as I finish high school here, I will move to America.
I am trying to make a plan for the future. Please tell me which one you recommend.

1) Get my private in the summer before college, go to a University, study Aeronautical Engineering, then in one of the summers do the 90 day fast track program at ATP.

2) Go to University, study Aero. Engineering, finish college, then go to a local FBO and get my ratings.

3) Go to Embry Riddle and get my ratings there.

4) <insert your recommendation here>

Also, would Embry Riddle be worth it? If my resume says that I went to Riddle or another college flight school, will that mean anything to the airlines or will they consider it the same as going to a local FBO?

I appreciate any feedback you can give me.
 
AviationInspiration said:
If my resume says that I went to Riddle or another college flight school, will that mean anything to the airlines or will they consider it the same as going to a local FBO?
Click to expand...

Won't mean anything to them. It's the same. A cpl is a cpl.
By the time you can apply to the airlines there are a lot of things with will matter 1000% more then where you did your ratings at.
 
Engineering Degree from Embry-Riddle should be first on your list and since your only 14 and if that's your main interest, I can tell you from researching this topic and touring the school for one of my own kids and having a 17 year old from next door currently attending Embry-Riddle Prescott studying Aerospace Engineering, it is a first class education that will open a few doors provided you work hard in school... Be warned Embry-Riddle is expensive, however if you maintain a 3.6 GPA or higher your junior & senior year in high school they will most likely award you several nice scholarships that will cover most of your educational expenses, but don't cover flight fees for engineering majors...

I currently know a couple test pilots that have engineering degrees, however they earned their degrees and then flew in the military prior to being sent to test pilot school...

It's never to early, so the best thing to do is start contacting the colleges & universities your interested in attending now, and learn what their specific admission requirements are...

Hope this helps...
 
I'm sorry but engineering at erau isn't even on the map compared to some really prestigious state schools that will cost 1/4. Nothing against erau at all, but you can't say that an engineering degree there should be first on a list.
 
z987k said:
I'm sorry but engineering at erau isn't even on the map compared to some really prestigious state schools that will cost 1/4. Nothing against erau at all, but you can't say that an engineering degree there should be first on a list.
Click to expand...

z987k,
Please enlighten us about these prestigious state schools your so knowledgeable about. As for his interest in an engineering degree from ERAU, please list the schools you mention, because this young 14 year old is looking for specific information, something you've failed to provide. So rather than bash a young person dream maybe you could provide some constructive insight as to just what this young person should be looking for in a school.

I would assume you've personally visited ERAU and know the program well? I personally have and in fact know several engineering students currently enrolled and several that have graduated, one of which is currently a NASA test pilot. I also know of two current students that have awesome intern jobs, one of which is working for NASA at Mohave on the space program.

I hate to burst your bash ERAU price bubble, but their engineering program pricing is inline with several other division one University programs and depending on the school might actually be cheaper depending on financial aid and scholarships.
 
sparky said:
z987k,
Please enlighten us about these prestigious state schools your so knowledgeable about. As for his interest in an engineering degree from ERAU, please list the schools you mention, because this young 14 year old is looking for specific information, something you've failed to provide. So rather than bash a young person dream maybe you could provide some constructive insight as to just what this young person should be looking for in a school.

I would assume you've personally visited ERAU and know the program well? I personally have and in fact know several engineering students currently enrolled and several that have graduated, one of which is currently a NASA test pilot. I also know of two current students that have awesome intern jobs, one of which is working for NASA at Mohave on the space program.

I hate to burst your bash ERAU price bubble, but their engineering program pricing is inline with several other division one University programs and depending on the school might actually be cheaper depending on financial aid and scholarships.
Click to expand...

I don't know if it's possible for him to get in state, so maybe everything is going to be crazy expensive for him. IDK.
But as to engineering schools that are public and are consistantly ranked top in the nation, not to mention individual programs being above some private Ivy leagues -
UC-B, U Illinois UC, Gerogia IT, U Michigan, UC SD, UCLA, Texas A&M, PSU.
Just off the top of my head. All of those are sub 14k/yr before scholarships. Some are sub 11k. I do know that uiuc has the best aero engineering in the country.

I really really really don't want a pissing match on which school is best. ERAU is a fine school and any degree from absolutely anywhere, in anything including underwater basket weaving is plenty sufficient to fly an airplane.
So my advice to the op is just don't major in aviation (don't put all your eggs in one basket), and pick a school you like. If you want to be a career pilot, it makes no difference where you go. Major in something you enjoy.
Personally, I'd keep it as cheap as possible. Massive debt sucks.
 
No Pissing Match Just the Facts...
Embry-Riddle University Cost Less Then High Priced Illinois University!!!
People please check your facts when providing information for young people looking to you for PROFESSIONAL advise concerning their education. This young minds are putting their faith in your professional opinions.

College of Engineering |
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Freshman Tuition & Fees Estimated Summary of Expenses for 2010 – 2011


Residents Non-residents
Tuition and fees $32,528*
Books and supplies** $1,200
Room and board (10 meals/week) $9,714
Other expenses *** $2,510
TOTAL ESTIMATED COSTS 45,952*
===================================

Estimated Costs of Attending Embry-Riddle

Undergraduate NON-FLIGHT Student Itemized Estimated Costs 2010-2011
Non-Flight Students

Tuition and Fees
$28,850
Room and Board
$8,850
Books (estimated)
$1,400
ANNUAL TOTAL
$38,800
 
Thank you for all the answers, z987k and sparky. Now I do think Embry Riddle is a really good school, but so is Penn State's College of Engineering. I will be getting in state tuition (even though I live in Greece - don't ask me, I have no idea either) and I will probably get in the campus @ University Park because of my many activities including 7 years of tennis. If I don't get in, I'll just go to Riddle.
Sparky, what is your opinion on this?
If my resume says that I went to Riddle or another college flight school, will that mean anything to the airlines or will they consider it the same as going to a local FBO?
I just need someone else to agree with the other answer so I can be 100% sure.
Thanks!
Alex
 
sparky said:
No Pissing Match Just the Facts...
Embry-Riddle University Cost Less Then High Priced Illinois University!!!
People please check your facts when providing information for young people looking to you for PROFESSIONAL advise concerning their education. This young minds are putting their faith in your professional opinions.

College of Engineering |
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Freshman Tuition & Fees Estimated Summary of Expenses for 2010 – 2011


Residents Non-residents
Tuition and fees $32,528*
Books and supplies** $1,200
Room and board (10 meals/week) $9,714
Other expenses *** $2,510
TOTAL ESTIMATED COSTS 45,952*
===================================

Estimated Costs of Attending Embry-Riddle

Undergraduate NON-FLIGHT Student Itemized Estimated Costs 2010-2011
Non-Flight Students

Tuition and Fees
$28,850
Room and Board
$8,850
Books (estimated)
$1,400
ANNUAL TOTAL
$38,800
Click to expand...

Your numbers are wrong. http://www.osfa.uiuc.edu/cost/undergrad/res_1011.html

It's 15,114 for engineering.
 
AviationInspiration said:
If my resume says that I went to Riddle or another college flight school, will that mean anything to the airlines or will they consider it the same as going to a local FBO?
I just need someone else to agree with the other answer so I can be 100% sure.
Thanks!
Alex
Click to expand...

Again, your employer, especially the airlines won't care where you went to school. Colleges try to sell you on their name, and it's true for some, just not in the Aviation field. By the time you are eligible for the airlines(years after college) nothing about college matters except that you graduated and the contacts/friends you made there. You can graduate from Backwoods U, and as long as they are regionally accredited, well then the checkbox can be checked. Past that it depends on what you want from the college experience, and how much you want to learn.

Do a search on here or ask how many pilots did part 61 training. Lots and lots. It makes no difference how you get there. Look at the thread on Arizona calling part 61 a "hobby school" and how many professional pilots went part 61.
A rating is a rating regardless of how you get it.
141 does have the advantage of no checkrides to fail and lower times required to get ratings, but you need the hours anyways.
 
z987k said:
Your numbers are wrong. http://www.osfa.uiuc.edu/cost/undergrad/res_1011.html
It's 15,114 for engineering.
Click to expand...

z987k
The young persons question was specific in requesting information about an engineering degree and then adding flight... Non Resident engineering cost of attendance is $45,952 and the info is located @
http://www.osfa.uiuc.edu/cost/undergrad/nonres_1011.html
unless of course Pennsylvania has an education tuition agreement between Illinios allowing Pa residents to secure in state tuition?

Heck even the instate cost of attendance at uiuc is $32,000, so it really isn't less expensive to attend uiuc. So your slam of Embry-Riddle being way more expensive is unfounded and lacks any substance
 
sparky said:
z987k
The young persons question was specific in requesting information about an engineering degree and then adding flight... Non Resident engineering cost of attendance is $45,952 and the info is located @
http://www.osfa.uiuc.edu/cost/undergrad/nonres_1011.html
unless of course Pennsylvania has an education tuition agreement between Illinios allowing Pa residents to secure in state tuition?

Heck even the instate cost of attendance at uiuc is $32,000, so it really isn't less expensive to attend uiuc. So your slam of Embry-Riddle being way more expensive is unfounded and lacks any substance
Click to expand...

So he's in PA, where he can go to any of those state schools for considerably less. Since underwater basketweaving is equivalent to any degree be it at erau or the local community college if they have a 4 year program or harvard or yale if he wants to fly for a living. That is the point I am trying to get at.
No one needs to be 200k in the hole to become a pilot. I don't want to see anyone do that.

It's not about uiuc erau or any other school. The point is, it doesn't matter.
 
Your intelligence is not measured by how much you spent on college. i've seen lots of guys come out of ERAU with degrees thinking the industry owed them a job just because they went to ERAU or had 100k plus worth of student loans. be careful. a degree is a degree. in any case, get one.

I would suggest something outside of aviation, that way, if for whatever reason you can't pass a medical or anything like that, you'll have a degree in another field to fall back on.
 
Now that a couple of you've taken the bait and are hooked good, unable to defend positions concerning an over priced education and attempted to fill a young persons mind with quotes of useless degrees and nameless schools... I will explain the facts about what he's attempting to learn...

AviationInspiration,
I've baited these guys into a pissing match to prove a point, you cannot rely on a lot of what's posted in forums. For example when pressed for info concerning the cost of ERAU verses a school of their choosing, they referenced a school that has the same cost of attendance as ERAU and was far less then the $200,000 quoted by them, and then when this info was challenged, they then proceed to change the subject to "well the school name or type of degree doesn't matter"...

Here's what you need to understand, there are a huge number of key board experts, that spend the day looking to make themselves appear as experts in various types of information and in this case it's an aviation education and how a young person should move forward in securing the best education available. The problem they have with their arguments in this post, is they failed to provide you with any real information or facts. They've simply quoted some bad info they read someplace and attempted to pass it on as fact, which was the wrong thing for them to do...

In your original post, your first interest was an aerospace engineering education, followed by flight training and then a possible career as an airline pilot... If you truly are interested in engineering, and combine it with a love of flying I can assure you an aerospace engineering degree from Penn State will become an extremely valuable asset that will open several doors during your aviation career.

I would also strongly suggest you secure your private pilot rating prior to entering college, since this will give you a better understanding of the profession and help you learn if in fact you really do want to pursue it as a career. Secondly, since a college degree is a must now days for the major airlines and if your serious about the engineering degree, go for it... Your engineering degree will allow you to not only check off the degree requirement, it also opens the door to senior management positions at the majors should you lose your medical. Always remember pilots like Burt and Dick Rutan failed basket weaving, however both do have engineering degrees...

Last but most importantly, remember there are a lot of different types of rewarding careers flying, so take the time to learn as much as possible about what interest you, whether it's flying freight for some small company or UPS, moving passengers from point "A" to "B" for a small regional carrier or someone like Delta, maybe flying for the military or becoming a test pilot for someone like Boeing or NASA, it's your dream so don't let anyone discourage you from pursuing what's best for you...

AviationInspiration, by starting to research careers at 14 years old makes you an impressive teenager, so take the time to contact Penn State now and also consider visiting NASA's website (nasa.gov) to learn about their high school student programs, since they are there to help young people just like you learn more about various type of aerospace opportunities are out there...

Here's a job listing where a engineering degree is required to fly...
Duties : Flight Test Pilot: Incumbent serves as a Flight Test Pilot conducting qualitative and quantitative flight tests on new or critically modified aircraft during type certification programs. Determines if the aircraft complies with the applicable Federal Aviation Regulations. Conducts functional and reliability test program required to demonstrate that the newly certificated aircraft will perform safely and satisfactorily during normal service. Writes and/or evaluates engineering flight test programs. Prepares reports and data required for type certification of the aircraft. Flight tests often involve evaluations of advanced or unconventional aircraft. These assignments often require flying an aircraft with little or no advanced checkout since experience with the aircraft is often unavailable. Flight tests must be conducted with the most critical configurations to establish maximum weight, maximum CG location, maximum airspeeds, maximum altitudes, maximum takeoff and landing conditions, and all emergency operations. Evaluations are conducted day and night, during icing, and with the most adverse conditions which the aircraft will encounter during normal operations. The aircraft often is approaching its theoretical operating limits.
Minimum Qualifications : Certificates and Ratings: All positions require a current commercial pilot certificate with airplane single and multiengine land and instrument ratings or an airline transport pilot (ATP) certificate. Minimum Flight Hours: Flight hours as pilot-in-command (PIC) or second-in-command (SIC) in aircraft of any weight or category is creditable for this requirement. Total PIC and SIC flight hours - 1,750 Total PIC hours - 1,150. Total instrument hours - 75. Total PIC and SIC night flying hours - 75. Total PIC and SIC flying hours within the last 12 months - 100. *NOTE: At least 10 of the required instrument hours must have been logged in actual instrument weather. The balance may have been acquired in a flight simulator or in other types of instrument flight time; e.g., hood instrument. Flight Experience Requirements: All applicants must meet the following requirements: Have successfully completed a military test pilot school Or the FAA flight test pilot school OR Have 1 year of flight test experience as an engineering test pilot conducting performance and flying qualities tests or analyzing aircraft performance data. NOTE: Acceptable engineering flight test experience must have been for the purpose of establishing the basic airworthiness of prototype aircraft or component parts in the experimental/developmental stage. This experience includes flight testing of an aircraft or component from the time of first developmental flight testing through final FAA certification or military acceptance testing. This experience must include basic stability, controllability, and performance testing to determine compliance with civil, military, or foreign standards. Flight tests will normally have been conducted in experimental category uncertified civilian aircraft or in military aircraft which have not had final acceptance for service use.
Other Job Requirements :
1. Experience with Federal Aviation Regulations (FARs), and related policies, standards and procedures concerning aircraft type certification, flight testing, and continued airworthiness.
2. Knowledge of emerging aviation technologies such as synthetic vision, Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast, and performance-based communication.
3. Ability to apply ADVANCED aerospace engineering concepts, principles, and practices to aircraft flight testing, and certification of aircraft and aircraft components.
4. Ability to foster the open exchange of technical ideas and information in order to develop solutions to resolve conflict.
5. Ability to establish and maintain effective working relationships with multidisciplinary subject matter experts and facilitate organizational consensus.
6. Ability to communicate ideas and facts in a clear and understandable manner, tailoring communication to the intended audience.
7. Ability to prepare reports, briefing notes, and/or other information specific to the needs and knowledge of the target audience.

Requirement for travel:Applicants selected for pilot positions are required to travel on an as-needed basis, and their work schedules depend on the needs of the organization. Some positions require weekend and holiday work.

Medical Requirement: Applicants must possess a first-class medical certificate.

Department of Transportation's Drug and Alcohol Testing Program: This position is covered by the Department of Transportation's Drug and Alcohol Testing Program. Any applicant tentatively selected for this position will be subject to a pre-employment or pre-appointment drug screening. Persons occupying covered positions will be subject to random drug and/or alcohol testing.

Training Requirements: Failure to successfully complete all required training, including the FAA initial flight test training course, and to obtain all required certificates may result in reassignment, demotion, or dismissal.

Flight Check: Candidates may be required to demonstrate proficiency in an aircraft, including a flight check to demonstrate ability to perform flight test techniques. Candidates will be evaluated on the quality of their experience as it pertains to the specific position being filled.

Interview: Candidates will be required to appear for an interview prior to appointment to determine whether they possess the personal qualities necessary to perform flight test pilot duties successfully. Candidates will be questioned about information on their applications and will be required to show appropriate certificates, ratings, logbooks or other appropriate records of flight time.
 
4) Go to school to get a degree in something non-flight related, and do flying either on the side or through the school's flight program, if they have one. That way you graduate with a useful degree and the flight experience.

Avoid ATP for primary training - they're good for doing things like your MEI quickly, but they will rush you through all their courses, and it's my opinion that such a thing for the PPL or IR is very counterproductive for the student.

As far as whether ERAU is worth it, I've heard people say that it does help, and I've heard people say that it doesn't. One thing that is pretty much universal is that going to ERAU will not help you if you're not a good pilot. So ultimately, how well you learn the stuff is far more important than where you learned it.

I do not, however, recommend ERAU. Not because it's expensive (though it is), or because the name means nothing (I think it does mean something, just not as much as some people make it out to, especially in this job market), but rather because it's not very diverse academically. You've got pilots, you've got engineers, you've got business students, and you've got ATC people, and that's about it. No history, english, journalism or biology students. And while you may not be interested in any of those things, it's very useful for your development as a person to be in an environment where your friends have a wide range of interests.

Just my two cents.
 
I don't know if you've had a chance to read my Perspectives article on this site, but here's a link:

http://www.jetcareers.com/perspectives/80-perspectives-mike-lewis-electrical-engineer.html

I went to ERAU as an electrical engineer, and I have to say, being an engineering student is a full-time endeavor.

I had the same plans when I was in high school; go to ERAU and double major in EE and Air Science. That changed to be just to major in EE and fly in the summer. After the first year, that changed again to just finish my engineering degree and use the summer to relax and recharge.

That's not to say you can't do it. Believe me, I had the passion, but the fact was that once I got the full load of engineering classes, I had to make the decision - was I going to focus on being a pilot or on being an engineer. As much as I wanted to do both, there's only so many hours in a day and so many days in a year, and you only have so much energy.

I always recommend that if you've never taking flight training before, you should take it as soon as possible, so I would recommend that part of option 1 no matter what. I can't tell you how many people I saw drop out after the first semester at ERAU when they realized that actually flying a plane was hard work and not like in Top Gun or in MS Flight Sim. Get your pilot's license as soon as you can to ensure it's something you really want to do.

Then, I'd pick a school based on your degree. Find a good aero engineering school. There are a lot of good AE schools out there, and some aren't what you would expect, such as Iowa State. They have one of the top ranked AE schools out there. But look at a school that's a good mix for you. Whether that be ERAU, Iowa State, Penn State, or some other school, make sure it's a good fit for you.

I think I know one guy who double majored in AE/AS, and he was on a 6-year track. He was pretty burned out, and what he basically did was do the AE degree and then do the AS degree.

Engineering is hard - I mean HARD. You take a 16-18 hour credit load, and that doesn't include laboratory time. The rule of thumb was for every hour you were in class, expect about 3 hours of homework outside of class. That means between work and homework, expect to be working/studying about 72 hours a week. That doesn't leave you a lot of time for flying.

I'll tell you for an engineering career, your school really doesn't matter. I'd take a guy with a 4.0 from Podunk State over a guy with a 2.8 from ERAU or Purdue any day.

So, what I would recommend is:

1. Go work on PPL and make sure aviation is really something you want to pursue.
2. Along those same lines, maybe see if there is some way to try out engineering. In the US, there are organizations like JETS (Junior Engineering Technical Society) that I got involved with to see if I would truly like engineering. Make sure that engineering degree is a good fit for you.
3. Find a good school for your degree. Whether that's ERAU or another school, find one that fits with you and can give you a good degree.
4. I'd say concentrate on your degree. If you can fly on the side or in the summer, great, but to be honest, I think you'll have your hands full just doing the engineering degree.

The thing that sold me on ERAU over other schools was the low student-to-faculty ratio, which was about 10-1 when I was there (as opposed to 50-1 or 100-1 for most large universities). The desire to fly on the side was a minor consideration. That said, there are days I wish I had gone to a large university for the full college experience - college football games, lots of girls, more options in classes and electives.

Find what's important to you. As I said, the student-to-faculty ratio was important to me. Think about what is important to you - the college size, college activities, classes offered, etc.

I hope this helps.
 
4) Don't worry about it right now! :)

You're 14 dude, chill with your friends and go get a girl. I mean it's good to have a plan, but don't lose out on your teenage years worrying about flying! :)
 
I agree, your still young, you have plenty of time to plan your future. Don't completely ignore your passion of aviation but at the same time dont stress about it now.
 
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