bike21
9-5 Ruins Lives
Say what? :rotfl:
Are we the big bad bear out there? I hope you mean adding provisions to protect all of us from management. It isn't 'us' vs. 'you' trust me. A bit more all of us vs. 'Inc.' Hope I read that wrong :beer:
Comair "big" announcement
- Thread starter N30TN
- Start date
Say what? :rotfl:
Are we the big bad bear out there? I hope you mean adding provisions to protect all of us from management. It isn't 'us' vs. 'you' trust me. A bit more all of us vs. 'Inc.' Hope I read that wrong :beer:
Baronman
Well-Known Member
Laugh all you want, I mean what I wrote. The provisions being discussed are for exactly that, protection against Skywest. I draw little distinction this point between management and the pilot group.
I'm sure the pilots are good guys. But you are Skywest Inc's tool that can be potentially used against us, and for that reason we HAVE scope protection (one list). If we change it, we'd like those clauses added.
zmiller4
Well-Known Member
I get what you're saying and completely understand, but there might be a slightly less "it's us vs. them" way of saying it.
Too many people get their impression of an entire pilot group from what they read online, which sucks because generally the loudest/most apparent representatives of a group come across as tools. There's a couple of the loud "Skywest is awesome/ALPA sucks" guys here and on other forums, and I don't want you all basing your opinions of your potential future co-workers on them any more than I want Skywest pilots thinking that all Xjet guys belong to the "Skywest are leeches/scabs/sellouts" crowd.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Whether you like it or not, you and the rest of pilots at Skywest WILL be used as leverage against XJT/ASA. Whether you like it or not, your pilot group is the tool that will be leveraged against us.
If you don't like that, then get ALPA on property and let's get one list going. Until that happens, your company, and your pilots are something that can bring harm to the XJT/ASA pilot group.
bike21
9-5 Ruins Lives
And you guys to us too. It goes both ways here, either way we all need to do our best to stay above the fray and not let management (or ourselves) turn this into pilot vs. pilot. And yes, there are those of us who will continue to fight the good fight here and get a real union on property.
bike21
9-5 Ruins Lives
I get what you are saying, but like I told John lets not make it personal here. I would like one list as well, but if you guys can't achieve it then by all means I hope you guys get those protections down solid for all of our sake.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
bike21
9-5 Ruins Lives
mxflyer
Well-Known Member
I really, really doubt that will happen. But you're absolutely right with the rest of your statement.
mrivc211
Well-Known Member
I support your pilot group 100% and have no beef with you or them. However, while I do agree that everything here is a fact, some were also left out that point out ExpressJet was not in a great financial position.
According to the 2Q10 results, you guys lost $5 Million. According to your website, your 3Q08 was also at a small loss. The company was headed in the wrong direction for a consistent period. The reason for this was because when Skyw made the first buyout offer in 2008, Expressjet was forced to renegotiate their contract with CAL, which lowered their margins substantially. Specifically from 10% to an adjustable 3.5%. Adjustable meaning that the CAL contract stated in bad economic times, like this one, that 3.5% goes out the door. It also states it can be a loss. This is all in your 3/3/09 10-K on pg 13 of 162.
"Our operations under the Continental CPA may no longer be profitable.
We amended and restated the Continental CPA on June 5, 2008. The amendments became effective on July 1, 2008. In contrast to the Continental CPA in effect before the amendments, which had provided for us to earn a 10% margin on our expenses incurred flying as a regional carrier for Continental, the agreement now has fixed block hour rates, which are subject to an annual adjustment tied to a consumer price index (capped at 3.5% per annum). Under the Amended Continental CPA, the ceiling for the annual adjustment noted above is 3.5%; however, there is no floor; therefore, in prolonged deflationary periods, the annual adjustment can be a negative percentage. The rates under the Amended Continental CPA are considerably lower than the pre-amendment rates and will result in lower overall revenues. At this time, it is difficult to quantify the overall financial impact of the changes because the pre- and post-amendment agreements are substantially different, including with respect to the services covered. Our results will depend, in part, on the timing of our fleet changes and how successful we are in reducing our operating costs. We originally derived significant amounts of revenue from the reimbursement, plus the 10% margin, for aircraft rent, fuel and other expenses. Those expenses, and the corresponding revenue, will no longer be reflected on our financial statements as they will be incurred directly by Continental. Moreover, the rates we earn will be fixed and not tied to our expenses; consequently, we could be unprofitable if we do not manage our costs effectively. We would need to aggressively reduce managed expenses under the agreement if aircraft are removed from service and returned to Continental."
Additionally, you lost the DAL contract on Sept 2, 2008. It was not a substantial amount of flying to be lost. Only 35 flights per day.
ExpressJet Reports 2Q 2010 Financial Results
HOUSTON, Aug 11, 2010 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ --
ExpressJet Holdings, Inc. (NYSE: XJT), parent company of regional and charter airline operator, ExpressJet Airlines, Inc., today reported a second quarter loss of $5 million or $0.27 per diluted share excluding special items primarily related to non-cash adjustments of deferred tax assets and impairment of fixed assets. Including special items, ExpressJet's loss totaled $18.6 million or $0.99 per diluted share for second quarter 2010.
The new UAL contract is being operated at a loss. In exchange, UAL was awarded large shares of Expressjet, essentially giving back everything they make from the contract, and then some. The ironic thing about this is, UAL is now all for the SKywest buyout because they own large shares in the company. UAL is to receive a lot of money from this merger. Had expressjet not offered those stock shares to gain the contract, that money wouldn't be going to UAL.
I'm pretty sure you won't be happy that I'm pointing out the negative aspects of your companies operation. But just to make it clear, Skywest would be taking a company that has consistently operated a loss for over 2 years and make it profitable. Profitability means we all get to keep a stable job.
When ASA was bought, those guys boarded their buses and headed for SGU demanding a new contract. It was expired by years, and they were worried about getting whipsawed. Were now approaching 5 years since the deal took place and not only do they have their CBA, but also have CRJ 700's CRJ 900's on property that were not there prior to the purchase. Skywest made that possible. They are also flying in ORD and IAD for UAL, at a profit. Something they did not have and Skywest made possible.
To date, we have not been whipsawed. If anything, ASA has been the benefactor of that transaction, receiving a lot of new flying.
I can't speak for the ASA pilots, but if you ask me, Skywest went in there and righted a ship that was steered for a negative outcome. I mean no harm by this statement, but maybe ASA would be going the way of Comair is right now, if that purchase had no taken place.
Bob, I highly doubt Skywest mgmt is buying your company with the sole intent to exploit you guys. While I agree that they don't really care about labor, they also understand that without labor, they won't have a profitable company. What I'm trying to say is they want to make a successful company continue to prosper and they can't do that with a pissed off pilot group. My opinion on the buyout is this is a strategic move to put the right regional airline on the right business structure. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't think they're out to whipsaw us. They will put Skywest where it makes sense, and ASA and Expressjet where it makes sense.
According to the 2Q10 results, you guys lost $5 Million. According to your website, your 3Q08 was also at a small loss. The company was headed in the wrong direction for a consistent period. The reason for this was because when Skyw made the first buyout offer in 2008, Expressjet was forced to renegotiate their contract with CAL, which lowered their margins substantially. Specifically from 10% to an adjustable 3.5%. Adjustable meaning that the CAL contract stated in bad economic times, like this one, that 3.5% goes out the door. It also states it can be a loss. This is all in your 3/3/09 10-K on pg 13 of 162.
"Our operations under the Continental CPA may no longer be profitable.
We amended and restated the Continental CPA on June 5, 2008. The amendments became effective on July 1, 2008. In contrast to the Continental CPA in effect before the amendments, which had provided for us to earn a 10% margin on our expenses incurred flying as a regional carrier for Continental, the agreement now has fixed block hour rates, which are subject to an annual adjustment tied to a consumer price index (capped at 3.5% per annum). Under the Amended Continental CPA, the ceiling for the annual adjustment noted above is 3.5%; however, there is no floor; therefore, in prolonged deflationary periods, the annual adjustment can be a negative percentage. The rates under the Amended Continental CPA are considerably lower than the pre-amendment rates and will result in lower overall revenues. At this time, it is difficult to quantify the overall financial impact of the changes because the pre- and post-amendment agreements are substantially different, including with respect to the services covered. Our results will depend, in part, on the timing of our fleet changes and how successful we are in reducing our operating costs. We originally derived significant amounts of revenue from the reimbursement, plus the 10% margin, for aircraft rent, fuel and other expenses. Those expenses, and the corresponding revenue, will no longer be reflected on our financial statements as they will be incurred directly by Continental. Moreover, the rates we earn will be fixed and not tied to our expenses; consequently, we could be unprofitable if we do not manage our costs effectively. We would need to aggressively reduce managed expenses under the agreement if aircraft are removed from service and returned to Continental."
Additionally, you lost the DAL contract on Sept 2, 2008. It was not a substantial amount of flying to be lost. Only 35 flights per day.
ExpressJet Reports 2Q 2010 Financial Results
HOUSTON, Aug 11, 2010 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ --
ExpressJet Holdings, Inc. (NYSE: XJT), parent company of regional and charter airline operator, ExpressJet Airlines, Inc., today reported a second quarter loss of $5 million or $0.27 per diluted share excluding special items primarily related to non-cash adjustments of deferred tax assets and impairment of fixed assets. Including special items, ExpressJet's loss totaled $18.6 million or $0.99 per diluted share for second quarter 2010.
The new UAL contract is being operated at a loss. In exchange, UAL was awarded large shares of Expressjet, essentially giving back everything they make from the contract, and then some. The ironic thing about this is, UAL is now all for the SKywest buyout because they own large shares in the company. UAL is to receive a lot of money from this merger. Had expressjet not offered those stock shares to gain the contract, that money wouldn't be going to UAL.
I'm pretty sure you won't be happy that I'm pointing out the negative aspects of your companies operation. But just to make it clear, Skywest would be taking a company that has consistently operated a loss for over 2 years and make it profitable. Profitability means we all get to keep a stable job.
When ASA was bought, those guys boarded their buses and headed for SGU demanding a new contract. It was expired by years, and they were worried about getting whipsawed. Were now approaching 5 years since the deal took place and not only do they have their CBA, but also have CRJ 700's CRJ 900's on property that were not there prior to the purchase. Skywest made that possible. They are also flying in ORD and IAD for UAL, at a profit. Something they did not have and Skywest made possible.
To date, we have not been whipsawed. If anything, ASA has been the benefactor of that transaction, receiving a lot of new flying.
I can't speak for the ASA pilots, but if you ask me, Skywest went in there and righted a ship that was steered for a negative outcome. I mean no harm by this statement, but maybe ASA would be going the way of Comair is right now, if that purchase had no taken place.
Bob, I highly doubt Skywest mgmt is buying your company with the sole intent to exploit you guys. While I agree that they don't really care about labor, they also understand that without labor, they won't have a profitable company. What I'm trying to say is they want to make a successful company continue to prosper and they can't do that with a pissed off pilot group. My opinion on the buyout is this is a strategic move to put the right regional airline on the right business structure. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't think they're out to whipsaw us. They will put Skywest where it makes sense, and ASA and Expressjet where it makes sense.
bike21
9-5 Ruins Lives
Ain't no hats required up in these parts!
stuckingfk
Well-Known Member
Careful mrvic211, I've been jumped on many times in the past because I stated that ExpressJet won the United contract because they underbid everyone else.
Interesting excerpts from the Express Jet Holdings INC 10-Q...
"Contract Flying. The increase in revenue and direct segment costs within our Contract Flying segment is attributable primarily to the increased block hours with the addition of flying under the United Express Agreement and higher aircraft utilization within the Amended Continental CPA. The overall segment profit margin is consistent quarter over quarter."
So Express Jet lost money as revenues increased. How is this a sustainable model?
"We receive payments under the United Express Agreement at a pre-determined rate based on block hours and departures flown at variable mark-up rates based upon Airlines’ performance, including on-time departure performance and completion percentage rates as determined within the United Express Agreement. We are also reimbursed for various pass-through expenses, including passenger liability insurance, hull insurance, war risk insurance, landing fees and fuel. As part of the United Express Agreement, we agreed to a temporary mark-up discount through June 2010, which resulted in an approximate $1.2 million cost savings for United."
Transcript of something said by Rich Bradford in SkyWest's 2nd Quarter Earnings Call
"Okay. So yes you are right. The ten-year term is directly relative to the 206 aircraft and it’s probably worth. I don’t want to complicate or get into too much detail on this call but, Continental does have ownership of or responsibility for as, the owner or the head lessee on this entire fleet of aircrafts. So there are 206 that are in the (unintelligible) to the Continental CPA. Those airplanes obviously have natural terminations that start, kind of go from 2013 generally out through 2020, actually some of them are a little past 2020 and as the airplanes naturally terminate, they will - the Continental has the right to pull down the fleet as airplanes naturally terminate, but we have some very specific replacement rights tied to those airplanes in order to maintain a certain percentage of the flying. So I mean that’s something that we think is a significant benefit and an improvement to what that current ExpressJet had in their contract. As it relates to the rest of the fleet, the 32 airplanes that are flying in the United system certainly this becomes an interesting situation when you now contemplate a merged Continental United operation. So I don’t knowexactly how that will affect these airplanes. It guess I am just saying it creates an interesting dynamic.
What we do know is that there are 22 of those airplanes that are in two different tranches of 11 that go out for a couple of years. There are 10 airplanes that are in short-term that are currently scheduled to expire at the end of December of this year. There are discussions going on between current ExpressJet management with Tom Hanly and his group relative to an extension with United on those aircrafts. And as we understand that those discussions are going on and we have left that currently to ExpressJet management and United. One of the additional benefits that we have in the contract is related to our exposure to those airplanes flying in United and the chartered airplanes. I mean obviously we will try to keep those airplanes flying as long as we can keep them flying these systems but if those operations terminate we do not have the tail risk on the airplanes."
If you read the whole transcript it will make even more sense. Basically Continental subsidized the aircraft leases by a certain percentage to help themselves out in turn helping Express Jet out.
Interesting excerpts from the Express Jet Holdings INC 10-Q...
"Contract Flying. The increase in revenue and direct segment costs within our Contract Flying segment is attributable primarily to the increased block hours with the addition of flying under the United Express Agreement and higher aircraft utilization within the Amended Continental CPA. The overall segment profit margin is consistent quarter over quarter."
So Express Jet lost money as revenues increased. How is this a sustainable model?
"We receive payments under the United Express Agreement at a pre-determined rate based on block hours and departures flown at variable mark-up rates based upon Airlines’ performance, including on-time departure performance and completion percentage rates as determined within the United Express Agreement. We are also reimbursed for various pass-through expenses, including passenger liability insurance, hull insurance, war risk insurance, landing fees and fuel. As part of the United Express Agreement, we agreed to a temporary mark-up discount through June 2010, which resulted in an approximate $1.2 million cost savings for United."
Transcript of something said by Rich Bradford in SkyWest's 2nd Quarter Earnings Call
"Okay. So yes you are right. The ten-year term is directly relative to the 206 aircraft and it’s probably worth. I don’t want to complicate or get into too much detail on this call but, Continental does have ownership of or responsibility for as, the owner or the head lessee on this entire fleet of aircrafts. So there are 206 that are in the (unintelligible) to the Continental CPA. Those airplanes obviously have natural terminations that start, kind of go from 2013 generally out through 2020, actually some of them are a little past 2020 and as the airplanes naturally terminate, they will - the Continental has the right to pull down the fleet as airplanes naturally terminate, but we have some very specific replacement rights tied to those airplanes in order to maintain a certain percentage of the flying. So I mean that’s something that we think is a significant benefit and an improvement to what that current ExpressJet had in their contract. As it relates to the rest of the fleet, the 32 airplanes that are flying in the United system certainly this becomes an interesting situation when you now contemplate a merged Continental United operation. So I don’t knowexactly how that will affect these airplanes. It guess I am just saying it creates an interesting dynamic.
What we do know is that there are 22 of those airplanes that are in two different tranches of 11 that go out for a couple of years. There are 10 airplanes that are in short-term that are currently scheduled to expire at the end of December of this year. There are discussions going on between current ExpressJet management with Tom Hanly and his group relative to an extension with United on those aircrafts. And as we understand that those discussions are going on and we have left that currently to ExpressJet management and United. One of the additional benefits that we have in the contract is related to our exposure to those airplanes flying in United and the chartered airplanes. I mean obviously we will try to keep those airplanes flying as long as we can keep them flying these systems but if those operations terminate we do not have the tail risk on the airplanes."
If you read the whole transcript it will make even more sense. Basically Continental subsidized the aircraft leases by a certain percentage to help themselves out in turn helping Express Jet out.
Screaming_Emu
Well-Known Member
All the more reason we should have one list. Cause we have to wear them over at ASA
bike21
9-5 Ruins Lives
Hat isn't part of that fortunately. I do sport the dinner jacket year round though
We can start a new thread though for this one, this sucker is hijacked enough.
FlyChicaga
Vintage Restoration
Hat isn't part of that fortunately. I do sport the dinner jacket year round though
Go to the "Coats" thread. You can join in that discussion about how hats suddenly morph even the crappiest pilot into a regional Sully Sullenberger.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
bike21
9-5 Ruins Lives
mrivc211
Well-Known Member
How about top hats and coat tails with canes in neon colors?