Flight Engineers

VA_av8r

VA_av8r

Well-Known Member
In light of the economy and the current job market, I'm thinking of taking a step out of the pilot seat for a while and becoming a flight engineer. There's an Air Nat'l Guard unit close to where I live that flies C-5s and I'm very close to hopping onboard. I love the plane and their operation is solid. I think it'd be a great way to get some solid experience and hopefully move up into the right seat later on down the road, but part of me is still hesitant.

I'm looking for opinions. Good, bad, whatever. I know some say that FEX are a dying breed, but I know others, like Fedex, still value the position as solid experience. Is it worth hanging up the hat for five or ten years as a pilot to do this? Or am I barking up the wrong tree completely and just don't know it?
 
VA_av8r said:
In light of the economy and the current job market, I'm thinking of taking a step out of the pilot seat for a while and becoming a flight engineer. There's an Air Nat'l Guard unit close to where I live that flies C-5s and I'm very close to hopping onboard. I love the plane and their operation is solid. I think it'd be a great way to get some solid experience and hopefully move up into the right seat later on down the road, but part of me is still hesitant.

I'm looking for opinions. Good, bad, whatever. I know some say that FEX are a dying breed, but I know others, like Fedex, still value the position as solid experience. Is it worth hanging up the hat for five or ten years as a pilot to do this? Or am I barking up the wrong tree completely and just don't know it?
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How old are you?
 
Why couldn't you serve for the ANG and still find a flying job? 10 year commitment yes, but fulltime job commitment no. I say if you want to serve then it would be a fantastic thing, but that is only something that you can really answer.
 
The FE is a dying breed quite quickly. The planes that use them are getting parked, even by all cargo carriers. If you are a pilot, IMO this would hurt your career more than it would help. The only think that would help it here is that you would be Military which gives you a bonus point when applying to Delta, SWA, AA etc. But not actually flying the plane is what hurts as you skills will get rusty and the airlines will see the app and see that you haven't flown transport category aircraft as pilot is X years and that is a negative.

I'd try to get a pilot position with the guard if can and avoid the FE spot if at all possible.
 
Bandit_Driver said:
The FE is a dying breed quite quickly. The planes that use them are getting parked, even by all cargo carriers. If you are a pilot, IMO this would hurt your career more than it would help. The only think that would help it here is that you would be Military which gives you a bonus point when applying to Delta, SWA, AA etc. But not actually flying the plane is what hurts as you skills will get rusty and the airlines will see the app and see that you haven't flown transport category aircraft as pilot is X years and that is a negative.

I'd try to get a pilot position with the guard if can and avoid the FE spot if at all possible.
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:yeahthat:

As long as you meet the education/testing requirements and aren't too old (or are able to convince them to issue you an age waiver) there's no reason why you can't just slide right in to a front seat. Go over to the unit, chat with the commander or operations officer, and start making friends.
 
Whitebread said:
How old are you?
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Ollie said:
:yeahthat:

As long as you meet the education/testing requirements and aren't too old (or are able to convince them to issue you an age waiver) there's no reason why you can't just slide right in to a front seat. Go over to the unit, chat with the commander or operations officer, and start making friends.
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I'm 26 and over a year from my degree. That's strike one for me. The Air Force wants you to be under 27 with a degree in hand to be considered for flight school.

Strike two came when I spoke to the guard unit and they told me that they don't take pilots off the street like that. They'd rather have someone they know already, i.e. an FEX in their unit that's eligible to move up or another pilot from elsewhere in the military.

But that's the gamble I'm taking. I'm hoping to move up after being an FEX for them after a couple years and I finish my degree. In fact, I met an FEX there that gave me a tour of the a/c and he did the same thing. He used to work for Eagle, he's been there for four years, now he's about to leave for C-5 pilot school.
 
Cool. That doesn't sound like a bad deal. There's a lot to be said about being enlisted and knowing the aircraft before going to flight school. Just really think about how you're going to feel about not being able to actually fly the airplane for a while. Going from the front seat and being peers with the pilots to moving to the back and being subordinate to them would be pretty tough for me.

I'm sure there are other Guard units in your neighborhood. It might be worth doing a little shopping to find somebody who would put you straight into a pilot seat after you finish your degree. I don't know what your personal situation is but it's something to consider.
 
Bandit_Driver said:
Correct me if I am wrong here but don't you have to be an officer to be a pilot and FE's are only Enlisted.
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Yes, FEs are enlisted, pilots are commissioned. Hence, this is why I'd like to join now, while I'm still in school. Learn the aircraft now and establish myself in the unit, then move up when eligible. This is why I said it's a gamble for me, because it's not a sure thing. But I like the odds and it'd be a great experience.
 
VA_av8r said:
Yes, FEs are enlisted, pilots are commissioned. Hence, this is why I'd like to join now, while I'm still in school. Learn the aircraft now and establish myself in the unit, then move up when eligible. This is why I said it's a gamble for me, because it's not a sure thing. But I like the odds and it'd be a great experience.
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It's definately great experience and I fly with two retired military FE's. One served on a C-5 and the other is from the C-130's. One is a PFE and the other hopes to move to the right seat. But after sitting in the back for a long time it isn't that easy to just hop in the right seat and pickup where you left off.

If you do go the FE route make sure you fly your tail off on the side and do a lot of hood or IFR work to keep your scan up.
 
VA_av8r said:
Yea....I always rely on yahoo to answer life's toughest decisions.

I'm going off of what I was told from those at the ANG unit. Since you seem to know otherwise, please share.
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I'm not sure how this ANG unit operates but as far as I know your age doesn't disqualify you just yet.

This is quoted from the last BOT guide I have 1.3.3.2:

"Rated applicants applying for rated programs (Pilots, CSOs, and ABMs) who are 28 years of age or older by the board convening date require the critical age MOU at attachment 4 to be included in their application. Rated applicants must be able to complete the selection process; receive a conferred degree prior to age 29; attend BOT; medical flight screening (MFS) (pilots only), Air Space Basic Course (ASBC) , the Evasion Conduct After Capture (ECAC) course, Introductory Flight Screening (IFS),if applicable, and enter undergraduate flying, undergraduate CSO or ABM training prior to age 30 (this equates to approximately 30 weeks of training prior to their skills training) Refer to paragraph 1.6.6, Critical Age MOU for individuals who are between the ages of 28 -29."

Basically it means you have until the age of 30 to enter UPT. Now the good news is that you're not 30 and as far as I know you can begin the application process before you actually have your "degree in hand". You have to be within a certain amount of time of getting your degree but you can apply ahead of time. Also the process alone will take at least a year if you're not age critical so if your lucky things could work out just right by the time you graduate. I'd suggest talking to a recruiter if you're serious about it.
 
Superfly7XAF said:
I'm not sure how this ANG unit operates but as far as I know your age doesn't disqualify you just yet.

This is quoted from the last BOT guide I have 1.3.3.2:

"Rated applicants applying for rated programs (Pilots, CSOs, and ABMs) who are 28 years of age or older by the board convening date require the critical age MOU at attachment 4 to be included in their application. Rated applicants must be able to complete the selection process; receive a conferred degree prior to age 29; attend BOT; medical flight screening (MFS) (pilots only), Air Space Basic Course (ASBC) , the Evasion Conduct After Capture (ECAC) course, Introductory Flight Screening (IFS),if applicable, and enter undergraduate flying, undergraduate CSO or ABM training prior to age 30 (this equates to approximately 30 weeks of training prior to their skills training) Refer to paragraph 1.6.6, Critical Age MOU for individuals who are between the ages of 28 -29."

Basically it means you have until the age of 30 to enter UPT. Now the good news is that you're not 30 and as far as I know you can begin the application process before you actually have your "degree in hand". You have to be within a certain amount of time of getting your degree but you can apply ahead of time. Also the process alone will take at least a year if you're not age critical so if your lucky things could work out just right by the time you graduate. I'd suggest talking to a recruiter if you're serious about it.
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Thanks Superfly, this is intriguing to say the least. I will definitely look into it. When I hear things like this, i'm glad I haven't signed the dotted line yet.
 
VA_av8r said:
Thanks Superfly, this is intriguing to say the least. I will definitely look into it. When I hear things like this, i'm glad I haven't signed the dotted line yet.
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No problem, feel free to PM me if you have other questions. Also check out airforceots.com, there's a lot of good info there as well.
 
Just out of curiosity (and because I don't have a FAR/AIM with me!), what are the requirements to get an FAA FE certificate? Who still gives FE training/checkrides?
 
Ollie said:
Just out of curiosity (and because I don't have a FAR/AIM with me!), what are the requirements to get an FAA FE certificate? Who still gives FE training/checkrides?
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You can take the written at most any testing center.

Sheppard Air has a good prep for it.

The airline that hires you will give you the training an checkride. Because after you get your checkride you have to do x hours in the plane before the license becomes permanent.

Here is the link to all three FE PT Standards
 
Bandit_Driver said:
Correct me if I am wrong here but don't you have to be an officer to be a pilot and FE's are only Enlisted.
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You cut me 'bro...you cut me deep! Other that personally offending me, the statement is correct.

To the OP:

I am a C-5 FE down @ the school house and have been doing it for quite a while. Here's the deal...I have met a many FE to pilot types and the BEST place to do that is in a guard or reserve unit. Here's what you do: You get hired as a FE and you ROCK at what you do. You become the guy that people ENJOY flying with. You learn EVERYTHING you can about the jet. You finish your degree and then when it comes time to hire pilots (which they would rather do from INSIDE THE UNIT) you will be good to go. Active duty side of the house? Well...there's more to that.

However...keep in mind that it takes quite a long time to become a C-5 engineer. It's a pain and isn't a "cake job" (well, once you are qualified it is). You will go to fundamentals for about a month. You will go to survival school for another month. You will go to initial qual that will take between 4.5-6 months. You will then do you local upgrade that MAY be done in about a year but can take as long as 2 years. So you can expect to spend about 2-3 years getting fully qualified. Also...the guard and reserves (and the reg AF) is in the midst of shifting around the C-5. You could finish up with your training and then guess what? C-17 conversion time! Yep....sucks and it happens.

If you have more specific questions, feel free to PM me.

Seeing how as I am lowly enlisted swine, I must march down the hall, clean toilets, and get an OFFICER (aka GOD) his coffee now...:laff:
 
HeyEng said:
You cut me 'bro...you cut me deep! Other that personally offending me, the statement is correct.

To the OP:

I am a C-5 FE down @ the school house and have been doing it for quite a while. Here's the deal...I have met a many FE to pilot types and the BEST place to do that is in a guard or reserve unit. Here's what you do: You get hired as a FE and you ROCK at what you do. You become the guy that people ENJOY flying with. You learn EVERYTHING you can about the jet. You finish your degree and then when it comes time to hire pilots (which they would rather do from INSIDE THE UNIT) you will be good to go. Active duty side of the house? Well...there's more to that.

However...keep in mind that it takes quite a long time to become a C-5 engineer. It's a pain and isn't a "cake job" (well, once you are qualified it is). You will go to fundamentals for about a month. You will go to survival school for another month. You will go to initial qual that will take between 4.5-6 months. You will then do you local upgrade that MAY be done in about a year but can take as long as 2 years. So you can expect to spend about 2-3 years getting fully qualified. Also...the guard and reserves (and the reg AF) is in the midst of shifting around the C-5. You could finish up with your training and then guess what? C-17 conversion time! Yep....sucks and it happens.

If you have more specific questions, feel free to PM me.

Seeing how as I am lowly enlisted swine, I must march down the hall, clean toilets, and get an OFFICER (aka GOD) his coffee now...:laff:
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I couldn't fathom moving from the right seat to your seat.....so many complicated things going on at your panel......
 
HeyEng said:
You cut me 'bro...you cut me deep! Other that personally offending me, the statement is correct.
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HeyEng, it wasn't meant as a negative or to offend you or enlisted folk. Just wanted to make sure some recruiter was selling a line of BS. And I didn't know how easy it would be to go from the back thru OCS to the front. I am well aware of the fact that the FE seat is one of the hardest working seats on the plane and am very impressed with the quality and professionalism of the FE's that I fly with that are retired USAF.

BTW I only though IP's were god. At least that what was printed on a seat in Tweet I saw. It said IP / aka god sits here.
 
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