Breaking news...GA crash at DVT

:( RIP to those involved.

Reading this thread has me motivated to go do some spin training. I have considered it for a while, but have been putting it off. I'm a little apprehensive since coming across this accident report a while back.

I don't think I'd freeze on the controls, but I just don't like the idea of spinning towards the ground. Then again, I was nervous about stalls initially, and quickly learned they're no big thang.
 
I haven't looked but I suspect that statistically, it's just like any other week in the summer when the weather is nice.


True, but if you looked around JC it feels like they're kinda piling up lately.

I was bad enough back in the day. Then we lost Ben. I'll be honest- this sort of trend makes me skittish we'll lose another one of our own.

Total downer, I know.. but I can't help but think we're all thinking it.
 
True, but if you looked around JC it feels like they're kinda piling up lately.

I was bad enough back in the day. Then we lost Ben. I'll be honest- this sort of trend makes me skittish we'll lose another one of our own.

Total downer, I know.. but I can't help but think we're all thinking it.

Probably will lose one of our own here, or more. With as much a cross-section JC represents, the odds are good that it will occur. Sucks, but that's the truth.
 
Probably will lose one of our own here, or more. With as much a cross-section JC represents, the odds are good that it will occur. Sucks, but that's the truth.

Aye, I know. The odds are against us.

... but I don't have to like it, and I don't have to stop wishing others safe flights in the hope that it won't happen.

There's nobody here that I'd wished snuffed out... especially THAT way.

Nobody.
 
Aye, I know. The odds are against us.

... but I don't have to like it, and I don't have to stop wishing others safe flights in the hope that it won't happen.

There's nobody here that I'd wished snuffed out... especially THAT way.

Nobody.

Of course no one's asking any of us to like it. Just to accept it. At least if one wants to be honest with themselves. Nature of the game.

I'll say it again: When your number is up, your number is up. Could happen anywhere, doing anything; and there's really nothing you can do about it. The grim reaper of aviation WILL come and take you away at a time and place of his choosing, and he does so with neither prejudice, nor favoritism.
 
Why? You spin a plane at 500 feet and I don't care who you are, its probably not going to come out of the spin before you run out of air. A vast majority of spin accidents are low altitude, where even having exact training in what to do in the situation wouldn't help. Teach people how to avoid spinning in the first place.

IMHO, you don't require spin training because you think someone is going to get out of a spin at 200ft. You require spin training because it increases one's understanding of how to fly the wing. What it feels like when things are about to let go. Modern training seems to labor under the notion that you can set up a realistic example of anything that might ever happen in an airplane. That's ludicrous. Computers are perfect for linear processing..."If A happens, then B". If that were all there is to it, we really SHOULD have computers flying airplanes. It turns out that there are a billion things or combinations of things that might happen, and only an adaptive, parallel processor (like the human mind) is up to the task. Thus, every experience is useful to the parallel processor, and every (reasonable) experience should be had, if possible. Our brains are (in certain ways) way smarter than we give them credit for...they're capable of filtering information and establishing links that our conscious minds aren't even aware of. Experiencing an aircraft in a spin is just one of an innumerable set of experiences that make flying an airplane "second nature", rather than an exercise better left to computers.
 
IMHO, you don't require spin training because you think someone is going to get out of a spin at 200ft. You require spin training because it increases one's understanding of how to fly the wing. What it feels like when things are about to let go. Modern training seems to labor under the notion that you can set up a realistic example of anything that might ever happen in an airplane. That's ludicrous. Computers are perfect for linear processing..."If A happens, then B". If that were all there is to it, we really SHOULD have computers flying airplanes. It turns out that there are a billion things or combinations of things that might happen, and only an adaptive, parallel processor (like the human mind) is up to the task. Thus, every experience is useful to the parallel processor, and every (reasonable) experience should be had, if possible. Our brains are (in certain ways) way smarter than we give them credit for...they're capable of filtering information and establishing links that our conscious minds aren't even aware of. Experiencing an aircraft in a spin is just one of an innumerable set of experiences that make flying an airplane "second nature", rather than an exercise better left to computers.

Well said. :clap:
 
Of course no one's asking any of us to like it. Just to accept it. At least if one wants to be honest with themselves. Nature of the game.

I'll say it again: When your number is up, your number is up. Could happen anywhere, doing anything; and there's really nothing you can do about it. The grim reaper of aviation WILL come and take you away at a time and place of his choosing, and he does so with neither prejudice, nor favoritism.

I think this kind of tempts the fate vs free will argument, but is true in that when enough things converge, that's all you get. Game over, and thanks for playing.

That said.. 'just accepting' that people will die when flying seems quasi-complacent to me. Sure, flying has inherent risks and sometimes people will fall prey to those risks. Just seems to me that if we prod each other every now and then maybe those risks won't pile up so fast.

We might fly single pilots ops sometimes.. but it doesn't mean we can't treat each other like crew in every other aspect of our aviation pursuits.

Just my .02
 
The late great cowboy Lane Frost said it best...

Don't be afraid to go after what you want to do, and what you want to be. But don't be afraid to be willing to pay the price.
 
I think this kind of tempts the fate vs free will argument, but is true in that when enough things converge, that's all you get. Game over, and thanks for playing.

That said.. 'just accepting' that people will die when flying seems quasi-complacent to me. Sure, flying has inherent risks and sometimes people will fall prey to those risks. Just seems to me that if we prod each other every now and then maybe those risks won't pile up so fast.

We might fly single pilots ops sometimes.. but it doesn't mean we can't treat each other like crew in every other aspect of our aviation pursuits.

Just my .02

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of that line of thought either. In the human factors trainings, I always liked the swiss cheese model. Things don't just happen because. When an accident occurs it's because a number of things in the system failed, and in this case failed just right, all the holes lining up.
 
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of that line of thought either. In the human factors trainings, I always liked the swiss cheese model. Things don't just happen because. When an accident occurs it's because a number of things in the system failed, and in this case failed just right, all the holes lining up.

Exactly. Just a little nudge.. and maybe somebody might live that day.
 
Why pilots get freaked out by an open door is beyond me. Ok it may get loud and windy, your nice jeps may blow out but the airplane will still fly fine.
 
Too sad that it could have been something as minor as an open door.

http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/...g-at-Deer-Valley-Airport-99934759.html?hpt=T2

The victim was identified as James Freeman, III.
According to Phoenix police, just before 6 a.m. Freeman took off from Deer Valley Airport on route to North Corlina.

According to an NTSB press conference on Thursday, Freeman radioed to the tower that he was returning to close a door and did not need any assistance.

The NTSB did confirm from surveillance video that the plane's left door was open when it crashed,
 
Too sad that it could have been something as minor as an open door.

http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/...g-at-Deer-Valley-Airport-99934759.html?hpt=T2

First post here...been a long time lurker. Currently a student pilot here in Scottsdale though...eventually working up to CFII.

Anyway, I was compelled to make this first post as I knew the pilot personally as a family friend. He was experienced, he was Instrument rated, had his Commercial SEL & MEL, as well as his glider rating. I was not aware it was him when the story first came out yesterday, but my heart sank as I read the news articles this morning when they released his name. :(

As far as the "open door theory" that this news article talks about, I'm pretty sure they are getting confused with the other small plane that went down in San Diego yesterday? (It was flown by an AZ pilot and had his family on board who were also from AZ) He specifically radioed back that he had left a door open....http://eastvalleytribune.com/local/mesa/article_ed6baea2-a0c4-11df-98ce-001cc4c03286.html

Media likes to get things confused and mixed up, especially when it comes to aviation.....I can't see an open door bringing down a Cirrus
 
Media likes to get things confused and mixed up, especially when it comes to aviation.....I can't see an open door bringing down a Cirrus
Sorry for your loss.

An open door has nothing to do with the airplane. An open door can bring down any airplane that has a pilot.
 
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