Had to report two to the FSDO

Acadia said:
It is not up to me to decide if someone broke an FAR. I was asking what FAR might have been broken (if any). I can't get into specifics about acting for my employer, but as I have stated numerous times, the call to the FSDO was not optional. As a parallel explanation, if a pilot was caught landing for fun in an unauthorized area like a national park or a wild life refuge, do you think there would be any doubt about involving the FAA? My situation is not quite that extreme, but close enough.
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So you're reporting someone because they might have broken a FAR? WOW, i really hope im misunderstanding that.

I can answer the national park question. No, 99% of the time it wont go to the FAA. Even if you're caught red handed, all you have to do is not be a complete ass to the ranger. I dont know of anyone thats done it on purpose, but we've had a few guys that went where they shouldnt as far as national parks and refuges are concerned. It was a mistake, and none of them ever made it to the FSDO's desk.

So, in my "extreme" (your words) situation, no one saw fit to involve the FAA, but you saw fit to involve the FAA, when you werent even sure if a reg had been broken?
 
Acadia said:
It is not up to me to decide if someone broke an FAR. I was asking what FAR might have been broken (if any). I can't get into specifics about acting for my employer, but as I have stated numerous times, the call to the FSDO was not optional. As a parallel explanation, if a pilot was caught landing for fun in an unauthorized area like a national park or a wild life refuge, do you think there would be any doubt about involving the FAA? My situation is not quite that extreme, but close enough.
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I believe you saying the fact that it was not optional, and therefore because it wasn't so, that sucks that it isn't optional. It really does. Am sorry to hear that.

That said, I guess we'll see what comes about of this.

As for the parallel explanation, I see what you mean, however it would depend what sources of info were/are out there about the area where you were located, and if it could have been reasonably differentiated whether or not landing there was legal, or even if it could be determined. The national park or refuge are far more cut and dried situations as you well know, so to me that would be the determining factor.

Now I still want to reiterate that there is no slam on you, as the conversation has progressed even beyond the original situation you posted. So in that vein, and separate from you and your example here, I do wonder where the profession has gone where some (obviously not all, and not all the time) people feel the need to police everything aviation related [reiterate: not referring to this situation in this thread!]
 
First off, I would like to apologize. I have fallen into the trap I detest. I seriously doubt you intended to create a minor fire storm on JC but your post ignited 4 pages rapidly. I then made my posts. It could be easily construed that my posts and others forced you into a defensive posture, "I was only doing my job". With 4 pages burning quickly your response was, until this post, reasonable... trying to dodge the bullets and blame for an action others found repugnant. But in the following quote, you say it was all THEIR fault, it was their actions which drove the events. In essence you were just an innocent bystander if one is to believe your posts.

Nothing learned. Disappointing.

Time to me to move onto another thread.

Acadia said:
As to your questions here, no I would not do anything different. I suspect that the pilots will have a few things that they would do differently here, and lets remember, it was their actions that drove these events. I am not happy about getting a fellow pilot in trouble, but should something come of this, the responsibility falls on their shoulders.
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Acadia said:
Someone from the FSDO plans to go out to the island with us to document the site. Assuming that this was not some kind of official business, are these pilots looking at anything worse than a warning from the FAA? Other than perhaps 91.13, did they violate any FAR?
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Karma sucks. I don't think its ever a good idea to invite extra scrutiny on yourself or someone else. You better believe the FAA is going to be checking out the legalities of that landing strip and not just what the two pilots were doing. Who knows who the liability will end up being put on for the whole ordeal and hopefully one of the guys you turned in doesn't have a law degree. That would make things even more fun for you.
 
cmill said:
I can answer the national park question. No, 99% of the time it wont go to the FAA. Even if you're caught red handed, all you have to do is not be a complete ass to the ranger. I dont know of anyone thats done it on purpose, but we've had a few guys that went where they shouldnt as far as national parks and refuges are concerned. It was a mistake, and none of them ever made it to the FSDO's desk.

So, in my "extreme" (your words) situation, no one saw fit to involve the FAA, but you saw fit to involve the FAA, when you werent even sure if a reg had been broken?
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Around these parts and with the federal agencies I work with, I know for a fact that the FAA is involved with such instances. Again, it is not my job to decided if an FAR was broken, it is my job to report such an incidence to the appropriate authority.

I understand the discussion we are having on this, but I am a bit surprised that 90% of the focus is on the reporting of a possible infraction, and that 10% is focused on the pilots actions that caused the reporting.
 
slough said:
Karma sucks. I don't think its ever a good idea to invite extra scrutiny on yourself or someone else. You better believe the FAA is going to be checking out the legalities of that landing strip and not just what the two pilots were doing. Who knows who the liability will end up being put on for the whole ordeal and hopefully one of the guys you turned in doesn't have a law degree. That would make things even more fun for you.
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The FAA is well aware that this was a landing strip 25 years ago, and they advised us on marking as closed many moons ago. At this point it is mostly a meadow with trails in it.
 
Is your employer on MDI? And if so, isn't MDI a reservation?

If so, that could be the issue with why the call was required...
 
Acadia said:
The FAA is well aware that this was a landing strip 25 years ago, and they advised us on marking as closed many moons ago. At this point it is mostly a meadow with trails in it.
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Are the marking still clearly visible from the air? Is there grass growing up fading out the x's? What are the FAA rules for making sure a runaway remains clearly marked as closed over time? There are too many variable too assume that all the liablities is going to fall on the pilots. I would definately make sure my rear end is covered before I called in the feds.
 
cmill said:
If for nothing else, these threads are entertaining. They also let me see who i would/wouldnt want to share a cockpit with.
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I feel the same way.

And I also agree with sentiment about the people on the forum that have a blatant disregard for the FARs, disturbing at best.
 
Orange Anchor said:
But in the following quote, you say it was all THEIR fault, it was their actions which drove the events. In essence you were just an innocent bystander if one is to believe your posts.

Nothing learned. Disappointing.

Time to me to move onto another thread.
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Ultimately the choice to land was the pilots and only the pilots. That is a basic fact. The ramifications of the landings is another matter. Here I do play a role, which is to act on behalf of and in the best interest of the land owner. In this case that is to document and report the incident to the appropriate authority.

It is now up to the appropriate authority to decide if anything improper took place. If the answer is yes, then again it falls on the pilots who made the choice.
 
just my two cents:

But it seems like there have been quite a few "Tattle Tale" threads on here lately. Why can't people just talk to people who they feel are deliberately being unsafe, or stupid? Seems to me that in THIS situation the best response (as was said previously) would have been, "Are you OK? This is private property and a closed strip. You need to leave."
 
ralphbrynard said:
just my two cents:

But it seems like there have been quite a few "Tattle Tale" threads on here lately. Why can't people just talk to people who they feel are deliberately being unsafe, or stupid? Seems to me that in THIS situation the best response (as was said previously) would have been, "Are you OK? This is private property and a closed strip. You need to leave."
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Does anyone get that the OP didn't have a choice in this matter? :banghead:
 
[/hijack]

Which, not to sidetrack....but it does make me wonder now what would happen if I had an engine out over one of the many reservations here in AZ (or anywhere else for that matter)....


[/end hijack]

But as cmill put it, It does help alot :-)
 
They were probably just some weekend warriors that wanted to checkout the cool scenery. As long as no one got hurt, and they left amicably, I wouldn't do anything. That's just me...
 
dvtpilot said:
[/hijack]

Which, not to sidetrack....but it does make me wonder now what would happen if I had an engine out over one of the many reservations here in AZ (or anywhere else for that matter)....


[/end hijack]

But as cmill put it, It does help alot :-)
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Pretty simply spelled out in FAR 91.3(b).
 
slough said:
Are the marking still clearly visible from the air? Is there grass growing up fading out the x's? What are the FAA rules for making sure a runaway remains clearly marked as closed over time? There are too many variable too assume that all the liablities is going to fall on the pilots. I would definately make sure my rear end is covered before I called in the feds.
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May turn out to be a no harm/ no foul deal, or might not.

Might be that the pilots didn't know or couldn't see the markings.

Might be that there was a plethora of information on the place, and they should've known better.

Time will tell.
 
stesta5074 said:
They were probably just some weekend warriors that wanted to checkout the cool scenery. As long as no one got hurt, and they left amicably, I wouldn't do anything. That's just me...
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If it was my land I would almost certainly feel the same way.
 
dvtpilot said:
[/hijack]

Which, not to sidetrack....but it does make me wonder now what would happen if I had an engine out over one of the many reservations here in AZ (or anywhere else for that matter)....


[/end hijack]

But as cmill put it, It does help alot :-)
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Prolly like getting a 25 dollar speeding ticket for going 16mph in a 15mph zone. Go to tribal court and pay $150 to get it dismissed.
 
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