C Series a dead duck?

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http://www.glgroup.com/News/Lack-Of-CSeries-Orders-Due-To-Range--49701.html


Lack Of CSeries Orders Due To Range?

July 28, 2010
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Summary


Having been horribly humiliated at the worlds biggest air show last week in Farnborough, the CSeries technical development hides another big problem with its so-called efficiencies - range.

Analysis


Bombardier (and by association Pratt & Whitney) are routinely quick to point out the alleged 20% fuel burn savings of the CSeries family. What they don’t make clear is that is based on a 500nm stage length that is wholly unrepresentative of airlines that operate longer routes using A320s and 737s.

Both CSeries models, the CS100 and CS300 are advertised with a range of just 2,200nm (according to Bombardier's website), it is starting to emerge that the point at which the airplane/engine combination derive most fuel efficiency tapers off dramatically as flight stage lengths increase. Factor in the fewer cycle-capable GTF engine into the mix and it becomes clear why operators are seeing the CSeries as something that cannot truly be considered as a like-for-like replacement for the A320 or 737 families.

As airlines scale up seating capacity, a higher density configuration CSeries further trades passengers for range and the fuel burn delta advantage it has drops sharply into single figures.

Can airlines really afford to jettison range and passengers for a jet whose optimum flight envelope performance is less than that obtained through their mix of short/medium operations in the A320 and 737?

Assuming Airbus and Boeing both re-engine, the viability for the CSeries is extinguished. While the A320 and 737 may be heavier and indeed burn more fuel over shorter flights, they are both higher capacity jets – that translates into higher revenue. This is part of the reason why Qatar Airways elected to hold back from placing an order and instead listen to the offer tabled by Airbus.

Did they really want a range restricted jet just because it may “fill” a capacity gap in the 100-135 seat market?

Does anyone?

After six desperate years and a paltry 90 orders later, the answer couldn’t be clearer unless Bombardier starts giving them away.

Analyses are solely the work of the authors and have not been edited or endorsed by GLG.
 
...Factor in the fewer cycle-capable GTF engine into the mix...

Why is P&W pooping on their own engine?!
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Unless... I'm suspicious of the Gerson Lehrman Group (not that what they say is incorrect). They appear to get paid to offer filtered opinion.

One would think this has similar implications for the Mitsubishi RJ.
 
Well, if all they keep doing is stretching the airframe, not only is the range gonna shrink, but you'll be down to 250 kts and 500 fpm by FL190.......
 
In all fairness, you simply can't replace an airplane that has been around as long as the 737 and 320 has with a entirely new type of airplane like the CSeries.

When the 737-200 came out, it was nothing like it is today. Boeing has had 40 years to fine tune the model for so many different markets. I would bet that the CSeries would be a great competitor to the 200/300/500 models, but when you are getting into the 700/800/900 range, they can't compete.

It's like anything in business, you can't be successful overnight. If the CSeries does make it through and get produced, this will be a long term advantage for Bombardier that will just begin to show results in 10-15 years.
 
If you can't load 100 passengers, bags and cargo onto it and fly at least coast to coast, what's the point?
 
What a stupid statement. Have you ever flown a Bombardier plane?

Hehe. I see what you did there.

While it's true that 100 butts coast-to-coast offers the most flexibility, if they can make a centibutt airplane that can fly shuttle routes on the coasts and feeders to hubs that costs half as much, someone's going to want it.
 
Anything made by Bombardier is garbage. I hope the C-series never takes flight.

Not true. They make cool snowmobiles. But, the question still stands. I haven't flown an Embraer, Airbus or Boeing, so I can't say if they're "garbage" or not. Hell, I haven't even flown a -900, but I hear they're a lot better than the -200.....
 
Anything made by Bombardier is garbage. I hope the C-series never takes flight.

What?? Bombardier may have its reputations but they do make nice products. They've been kind of mediocre with their airline division but it's only because they've been very popular with the CRJs and have gotten complacent. Their corp jets are some of the best if not the best.
 
Their 700 model is quite comfortable and has a lot more power to weight ratio than the 900. It will climb right on up to 390 without any problems. The 200 is the new turboprop of the 90's.
 
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