airline pilot vs cargo pilot?

Do they still sell seats to FO's and expect the captains to train them for no extra pay?

Hmm, didn't think this was going to turn that direction.

Last I heard, captains don't train the FOs. I went through 4 weeks of training and every other pilot (FO or PIC) goes through the same training.

So, to answer your question: No.
 
I would honestly get the idea of fedex or ups out of your head as cargo.

they are more or less the Major cargo carriers and you'd be lucky to work for them in your lifetime.

with that said, it's all the same training.

as far as estimate goes, freight pilots can make in the 6 figures. but more or less you'll be below 70,000 for a good long while.


the general conception that pilots make bank is ridiculous. sure a 777 Captain makes 150k+ but how long did he make much less, and how little time is he actually gonna make that 150k+?

Don't put too much bank on this persons comments, I suspect he has no experience to support it. FedEx and UPS are always seen as the only carriers out there, but others do exist. Atlas/Polar is finishing a merger and new contract. Pilots there see six figure on a similar...and sometimes better par...than "majors." Atlas also has very serious profit sharing. Last year it was 12.5% of the individual's gross salary. Some of their pilots were in the high $100K, mid 200K range. Profit sharing ran from a low of around 5,000.00 to over 35,000.00. The equipment is nice and they have a lot of new birds coming and stable growth.

There are others out there too. They don't get the press that FedEx and UPS do, but you have to ask yourself if that's really important or if flying is important.

Also consider where you'd like to fly. Besides some incredible offshore opportunities, places like Atlas go just about everywhere in the world. Yes, some may be dumps, but a lot are really great. Add in a nice layover and time to explore and it gives you something to consider over transcon's or up and down the East or West coast.

With passenger carriers, you get SLF...self loading freight (pax). Cargo? One day a plane full of designer fashions. One day a load of Ferraris and Lambo's. Maybe a month of flying the Red Bull teams around. Or Formula One cars. Or parts for the new 787 Dreamliner. It can make for some wonderful experiences and great stories.

The most inportant thing is experience. Don't make the mistake of thinking you can buy ratings to get the job. Learn to FLY...Learn to teach...Bite the bullet and TEACH to build your hours. The experience you gain will be exponentially more important than going to a "mill" and getting into an RJ with 250 hours.

Here's why. The flying you do as an instructor teaches you how to work and communicate. RJ's are nice, don't get me wrong. But what you learn is how to program, not fly. Program the boxes, taxi out, takeoff and slap on the autopilot. Follow instructions, reprogram and land. No real flying.

Instructing actually teaches you how to fly, think critically, keep your head on a swivel, anticipate, plan for the worst and always have a successful outcome.

So work on your ratings. Get good experience and don't be taken by the siren song of an "easy" way to the top. Work hard and learn. Ask questions.

Done them both. While there are some aspects of passenger flying I miss, flying cargo has taken me around the world...and no, we don't always fly at night. I've seen places I'd have never seen flying passengers, met people from around the world and learned a tremendous amount. I'd venture 100% of the guys I've flown with would say the same.

Wouldn't trade it for the world.

Oh yeah...nope, no flight attendants...so what, you cook your own first class meal...ask any cargo pilot if they's rather have an F/A, or be riding Business Class on Thai or Cathay or other carriers, being well taken care of by thier F/A's who treat you with tremendous respect as a pilot.

Most of all...GOOD LUCK!!!!
 
Hmm, didn't think this was going to turn that direction.

Last I heard, captains don't train the FOs. I went through 4 weeks of training and every other pilot (FO or PIC) goes through the same training.

So, to answer your question: No.

I was just curious... not trying to start a fight, just that when she called me about a job back in 2005 that was one of the reasons she wanted me to have my MEII.
 
We can sit here all day and aurgue about QOL, pay, blah blah blah. In the end though it remains the same. It depends on a person's preference. I will never go to a commuter airline now since I'll be taking a 50% pay cut at a minimum, be the lowest on the seniority (get crappy bases, reserve, schedule) and still have to answer to that Nancy of a captain. And I've seen cockpit footage of crews doing recurrent in the sim where the captain is not making any decisions, is pushing everything off on the FO and just not taking any responsibility. While I realize not every captain is like that, they are out there. Just something I don't have to deal with at this stage in my career.

Maybe you can work the system like none other at Eagle, I'm not doubting you, but how many new hires at Colgan or Pinnicle can work their system with the same egress and ease as you do? How many years does one have to work at a company before "paying of dues" is done? In the end it just depends.

Wow you've seen cockpit footage of sim! Nice!
I remember when key slime was cold calling amf dudes back in 05. I couldn't hang up fast enough. Glad to hear they have turned into such a high paying respectable career carrier.
 
Wow you've seen cockpit footage of sim! Nice!
I remember when key slime was cold calling amf dudes back in 05. I couldn't hang up fast enough. Glad to hear they have turned into such a high paying respectable career carrier.
While your not-so-subtle sarcasm is a little condensending, there have and always will be different companies for different people. I'm glad you said no to Key Lime, it just left a spot open for me.

BTW, I never did call Key Lime a career carrier. Although it is nice there is growth, I doubt I will ever fly on the 121 side of the company.
 
I would honestly get the idea of fedex or ups out of your head as cargo.

they are more or less the Major cargo carriers and you'd be lucky to work for them in your lifetime.

with that said, it's all the same training.

as far as estimate goes, freight pilots can make in the 6 figures. but more or less you'll be below 70,000 for a good long while.


the general conception that pilots make bank is ridiculous. sure a 777 Captain makes 150k+ but how long did he make much less, and how little time is he actually gonna make that 150k+?

WTF is this kind of advice? One thing I've learned and it's common sense, is to listen only to those who have been there done that. I will say that you are a long way out so things change but having goals is a good thing, it pushes you through the difficult times.

As for pay, I have several good buddies who work for Southwest and their pay is outstanding depending on how much you want to work. A good friend made $140K his fourth year (add another $40k for military retirment). He's on his way to $180k+ his 4th year there plus his military retirement. Point is that not everyone is going to work for the "best" airline but it's possible. Plenty of people do it and so can you down the road.
 
While your not-so-subtle sarcasm is a little condensending, there have and always will be different companies for different people. I'm glad you said no to Key Lime, it just left a spot open for me.

BTW, I never did call Key Lime a career carrier. Although it is nice there is growth, I doubt I will ever fly on the 121 side of the company.
I will tell you that working for Key Lime does not advance pilot careers long term. I turned her down as well because the deal they offered me was pretty slimy, and to be very honest, there are people in charge of hiring that would see that experience as more of a detriment than positive.

I'm not trying to bust your marbles here, but I am being frank with you. I wish you no ill will, but you should hear some of the things said about your company, and pilots who would be willing to work for them.
 
I'm also 19 right now and working on my IFR. But I've 135 vs. 121 is always in the back of my mind, though I'd be happy to get whatever flying job I can get.

Read through the forums, mostly good advice on the subjects. One thing I will add that is opening my eyes quickly is the pilots themselves. I have friends who fly 121 at the regionals and friends who are flying 135 freight. When they first got their first big flying jobs, all were just as excited. Fast forward and the 121 guys seem to have gotten a lot more conservative in nature overtime and don't seem very happy overall with their lives at the moment and can't seem to talk about flying/airlines without complaining. The guys I hang out with who fly 135 seem to get progressively more awesome and love their lives despite having their own hardships and (usually but not always) less pay. The guys I know who fly 135 also have the best stories to tell. This is all with exceptions of course, I've met 121 playboys who make me droll in envy and nerdy 135 guys who could make me want to hammer a nail into my head within 10 minutes of conversation. But I can say I've noticed a general trend.

Another thing I'll add is a quick story. One time at the gate I listed a FedEx MD-11 captain for the jumpseat on the flight I was working and we got to talking about flying for about half an hour. Right as I'm telling him how much I would love his job, an Atlas pilot comes up to list(how funny because I haven't seen one before or since). The FedEx guy says "You can have my job, I want HIS job". Over the next few minutes the two of them made Atlas look like a pretty awesome place to be. I never gave Atlas much thought before the conversation, but it is interesting what you can learn from people who have actually been there as opposed to listening to 3rd hand information from people who have "heard" things. Which is where the archives come in as Dale said. There is a wealth of info on this site, use it wisely.
 
The FedEx guy says "You can have my job, I want HIS job". Over the next few minutes the two of them made Atlas look like a pretty awesome place to be. .

All companies, including FedEx, have a small number of people who have NO IDEA how good the working conditions are, relatively. I would not put much credence in that. I can give you a 100% guarantee that the FedEx guy you spoke to wouldn't last a minute at Atlas. There are quite a few pilots that left Atlas for FedEx. I know of none that did the opposite voluntarily.

I would be curious what the guy was saying, actually! Not saying that everything is perfect at FedEx, but compared to most places, the "issues" are trivial. Literally.
 
Not saying that everything is perfect at FedEx, but compared to most places, most the "issues" ,people like you encountered have, are trivial. Literally. Often they have no clue what is happening in the rest of the industry.
 
Hmm, didn't think this was going to turn that direction.

Last I heard, captains don't train the FOs. I went through 4 weeks of training and every other pilot (FO or PIC) goes through the same training.

So, to answer your question: No.

That answers part of the question. The other half remains unanswered. Does the company still sell the right seat?
 
Love the fact I can do what I want, when I want to, how I want to

No you can't.

You fly where, when, and how your company wants you to. I don't care if your a guy flying lines in a 172, or a 747 guy. We all follow our company SOP and FMs.
 
I would be curious what the guy was saying, actually! Not saying that everything is perfect at FedEx, but compared to most places, the "issues" are trivial. Literally.
There was a touch of SJS in what he was saying as it seemed obvious he was pretty eager to fly a 747. But he was saying how Atlas recently launched a pax outfit based in HKG(I didn't know that) so they have an awesome opportunity to mix it up a little if they want to fly pax and how they have better domiciles and he said they make more than he does and get more time off. The conversation wasn't aimed at me they just started talking with each other and that's what I gathered. I just figured "Wow, if a FedEx MD-11 CA is this fired up about Atlas, that must be the place to be".
 
I'm 99.9% sure that Atlas guys make substantially less than FedEx guys, and I'd be pretty skeptical about the time off claims, too. And I say that as a guy who could easily see Atlas a career job for myself.
 
I'm 99.9% sure that Atlas guys make substantially less than FedEx guys, and I'd be pretty skeptical about the time off claims, too. And I say that as a guy who could easily see Atlas a career job for myself.

With first hand knowledge, I can say you're correct on both counts. We have a few, (mostly ex-FTL), that always dreamed of flying the 74 and feel that FedEx "stole" that from them and will be forever bitter. Most live on the West Coast. Sounds like one such was encountered in this story.
 
Don't forget the larger cargo aircraft have self loading cargo as well. The races horses walk on too, the same as passengers. Also, most larger cargo aircraft have freight handlers to load them.
 
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