A question for you robinson pilots

thehobbit

thehobbit

Well-Known Member
In my class today we were talking about TBO times and someone mentioned that in australia that r22/r44 owners don't have to follow the TBO guideline like they do here. The person who mentioned this also said that Robinson would contact owners in australia just to see how long something would last before it really had to be fixed as apposed to their official TBO. Is this person just talking out of their ass or is this true? thanks
 
b3181981 said:
In my class today we were talking about TBO times and someone mentioned that in australia that r22/r44 owners don't have to follow the TBO guideline like they do here. The person who mentioned this also said that Robinson would contact owners in australia just to see how long something would last before it really had to be fixed as apposed to their official TBO. Is this person just talking out of their ass or is this true? thanks
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Unlike an airplane, I don't know if I'd mess with timed components on a helo....where nearly everything is life limited.

Especially in a flimsy and lightweight machine like an R22/44.
 
MikeD said:
Unlike an airplane, I don't know if I'd mess with timed components on a helo....where nearly everything is life limited.

Especially in a flimsy and lightweight machine like an R22/44.
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I hear ya, I'm just wondering if people in auistralia are doing that and are allowed to do so?
 
b3181981 said:
I hear ya, I'm just wondering if people in auistralia are doing that and are allowed to do so?
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Sorry, I forgot to answer you original question, which I don't know personally. I'd be interested to know if thats BS too. I can't imagine it's true, but am not sure.
 
I know nothing about the standards and practices in Oz but I'm very well versed in the Robbies.

As stated, everything is life limited. The whole helicopter has a 10yr or 12000hr limitation. Once you reach either of those two the whole chopper has to be torn down and rebuilt. If it's geared, you get new ones. If it has a bearing, you get new ones. If it's rubber it gets replaced.

To get new rotors you have to slice the blade in two about three feet from the hub and send the inside leftovers back to the shop.

Frank Robinson is very demanding in how he wants his choppers maintained.
 
esa17 said:
I know nothing about the standards and practices in Oz but I'm very well versed in the Robbies.

As stated, everything is life limited. The whole helicopter has a 10yr or 12000hr limitation. Once you reach either of those two the whole chopper has to be torn down and rebuilt. If it's geared, you get new ones. If it has a bearing, you get new ones. If it's rubber it gets replaced.

To get new rotors you have to slice the blade in two about three feet from the hub and send the inside leftovers back to the shop.

Frank Robinson is very demanding in how he wants his choppers maintained.
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Do owners normally do this inspection or do they junk the things? How much does/would the inspection cost? I suppose it is another reason why they rent for a billion dollars an hour.
 
Codyjp said:
Do owners normally do this inspection or do they junk the things? How much does/would the inspection cost? I suppose it is another reason why they rent for a billion dollars an hour.
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I don't know that's why I'm asking. I know for fixed wing private aircraft you don't have to have a major overhaul done on your own plane even if it is past TBO as long as the compressions are good.
 
Codyjp said:
Do owners normally do this inspection or do they junk the things? How much does/would the inspection cost? I suppose it is another reason why they rent for a billion dollars an hour.
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A total rebuild from a Robinson Service Center (my former employer was) started at $175k.

That means all new blades, engine overhaul, main rotor GB overhaul, tail rotor GB overhaul.....

It's an expensive and thorough undertaking.
 
esa17 said:
A total rebuild from a Robinson Service Center (my former employer was) started at $175k.

That means all new blades, engine overhaul, main rotor GB overhaul, tail rotor GB overhaul.....

It's an expensive and thorough undertaking.
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that is about 50% of the cost of a new one right? Oye!
 
Not an answer, but an interesting related item from New Zealand:

http://www.caa.govt.nz/airworthiness_directives/helicopters/r22.pdf

DCA/ R22/41 Main Rotor Blades – Reduced Retirement Life​

Applicability:
​
​
All R22 series

Requirement: ​


​
​
To prevent in-flight failure of a main rotor blade caused by fatigue cracking in the​

inboard end of the main rotor blades and subsequent loss of the helicopter,
accomplish the following:-
1. For main rotor blades which have been fitted to helicopters performing aerial
mustering operations in Australia for more than 50 hours TIS, the blade retirement life
is reduced to 1500 hours TTIS.
Where used blades have been imported from Australia and it can not be determined
whether or not the blades have been fitted to helicopters performing aerial mustering
operations, the blade retirement life is reduced to 1500 hours TTIS.
2. Main rotor blades retired from service per Australian AD/R22/31 Amdt 7 are not to
be fitted to any helicopter.
Note: MRBs that are removed at less than the time specified in the Airworthiness
Limitations Section of the R22 Maintenance Manual should be retained as future
developments may enable them to be placed back into service.
​
​
Compliance: ​


​
​
1. Retire blades at 1500 hours TTIS or within the next 25 hours TIS, whichever is the​

later.
2. From 13 August 2003.​
​
​
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TBO is just a recommended inspection deadline as it is, you can slap an experimental sticker on it and fly it for as long as you want. Granted that's probably the dumbest thing you could ever do in a Robinson.

I could be totally off the wall here, but TBO is really only enforced by the FAA, so depending on what Australian regs say, it could totally be feasible. Robinson has no grounds to say "You HAVE to do this inspection." But it is highly recommended.
 
cmcvic said:
TBO is just a recommended inspection deadline as it is, you can slap an experimental sticker on it and fly it for as long as you want. Granted that's probably the dumbest thing you could ever do in a Robinson.

I could be totally off the wall here, but TBO is really only enforced by the FAA, so depending on what Australian regs say, it could totally be feasible. Robinson has no grounds to say "You HAVE to do this inspection." But it is highly recommended.
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It becomes and insurance liability so since they rule the world, they make the rules. In the fixed wing world service bulletins are a good idea, in the rotor wing world they are always complied with.

So, if you're willing to self insure this isn't an issue but even for the most wealthy of chopper operators compliance with a manufacturers "recommendation" isn't even a question.
 
esa17 said:
It becomes and insurance liability so since they rule the world, they make the rules. In the fixed wing world service bulletins are a good idea, in the rotor wing world they are always complied with.

So, if you're willing to self insure this isn't an issue but even for the most wealthy of chopper operators compliance with a manufacturers "recommendation" isn't even a question.
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All very true, but its not impossible. I was just pointing out what is a possibility, although probably rarely happens.


But back to the topic at hand, who knows what actually happens in Australia though.
 
I've heard of someone who lost the paperwork that came with the overhaul kit, Robinson said sure well give you new paperwork... For $80,000. He said no, and ended up with an experimental aircraft.
 
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