Grand Forks Job Market

[challenger]

I didn't like North Dakota much either, way to cold. But the people are friendly and thats what counts. I could sit here and bash the out of it too, but then again no one kidnapped me, put me in a box, and made me live there. I chose to live there so it would be kind of stupid for me to just bash it like it was a prison or something.

Plus name another flight school of equal or better quality at the same price? I was living in the dorms and going there full time and flying for under 30K per year when I was there. Can't beat that! :clap:

There is no competition for the impossible for me. My federal aid was maxed out and I cannot get approved for private student loans, so therefore I cannot fly at UND. I also consider that my 102 teacher Leslie Martin, was not that great of a teacher. So from what I saw when I was there, I do not feel that it was worth my money spent on attempting to force it to happen.

 

[gotWXdagain]

There is no competition for the impossible for me. My federal aid was maxed out and I cannot get approved for private student loans, so therefore I cannot fly at UND. I also consider that my 102 teacher Leslie Martin, was not that great of a teacher. So from what I saw when I was there, I do not feel that it was worth my money spent on attempting to force it to happen.

Wow, big man to drag someone else's name in the dirt behind their back instead of taking the issue up with them.

 

[challenger]

Wow, big man to drag someone else's name in the dirt behind their back instead of taking the issue up with them.

Just look at her rate my Prof page, its common logic that she is a bad teacher. To bad she was the best available when I registered

 

[pwttogfk]

Hmm...all but 2 or 3 of her bad ratings come from AVIT 100 or 102 students, with mainly positive feedback from 222/415 students. This seems to correlate with the lack of effort and desire to have material spoon-fed that I saw when teaching 102 students last semester. I like Leslie quite a bit, and seeing her personally attacked on an online forum like this ticks me off.

 

[Kristie]

Wow, big man to drag someone else's name in the dirt behind their back instead of taking the issue up with them.

There's nobody dragging names in the dirt here if you ask me....As a previous college student, there's nothing wrong with having an opinion about a teacher and naming said teacher. I had a lot of professors at UCF (Florida) that i thought were good and some i thought should have been retired since they were obviously still there due to tenure and spending all their time on research and not teaching. seriously, some classes, i came in and the teacher would hand out homework and say "you have the book, go learn it"...I had one thermodynamics professor that actually told us he did not have office hours and WOULD NOT answer any questions except for during class....Thermodynamics...do you know how difficult that course is? I had to drop and audit that course so i could find a better professor, that had office hours, to learn from the next semester (if i was lucky)...that's NOT teaching.

when it comes to college professors, i think they need to be rated by their students as a performance measure of their work, just like anyone else who has to have performance reviews. I understand that the money is in the research, but students are paying for a service that's supposed to be provided. College is a LOT of $$$$ nowadays and performance reviews by the students shouldn't be overlooked. If they are and the students don't feel they're getting their full worth, well then yea, you're going to see some backlash by students telling other students to avoid said teacher. Students are paying for a product AND a service. It's up to them to get the result product, it's up to the university and it's staff to provide the service.

If someone wants to steer other students away from particular teachers, I don't see a problem with it as long as there's a stated opinion behind it and it's not considered spamming strictly on a "don't take a class with this professor" thread type thing.

 

[WIFlyBoy]

I too share the same opinion of said professor, as do many students currently enrolled at UND and many graduates of the aviation program at UND. I also find it interesting that multiple professors and other faculty members know that she is a horrible teacher, but everyone knows nothing will be done. There are multiple bad reviews for her ability to teach, but its a game of friends. There are a ton of great professors at UND, but she is one of the horrible ones that still baffles my mind that she holds a teaching job at UND.

Like Kristie said, its a service that students pay a ton of money for and they should be getting what they paid for. At the end of each semester ever teacher gets a performance review from ever student. Despite what some people may tell you, how much professors get paid is based on these and there are a ton of students that don't take them seriously and just fill in random bubbles on the sheet to get out of class as soon as possible. Its pretty sad, but its the way it goes.

edit: to bring up the comment about talking behind her back and to bring it up with her. It has been done multiple times by many individuals. These things have even been brought up to the Dean and the Student Aviation Advisory Council. Wether or not anything will ever be done is anyone guess.

 

[challenger]

There's nobody dragging names in the dirt here if you ask me....As a previous college student, there's nothing wrong with having an opinion about a teacher and naming said teacher. I had a lot of professors at UCF (Florida) that i thought were good and some i thought should have been retired since they were obviously still there due to tenure and spending all their time on research and not teaching. seriously, some classes, i came in and the teacher would hand out homework and say "you have the book, go learn it"...I had one thermodynamics professor that actually told us he did not have office hours and WOULD NOT answer any questions except for during class....Thermodynamics...do you know how difficult that course is? I had to drop and audit that course so i could find a better professor, that had office hours, to learn from the next semester (if i was lucky)...that's NOT teaching.

when it comes to college professors, i think they need to be rated by their students as a performance measure of their work, just like anyone else who has to have performance reviews. I understand that the money is in the research, but students are paying for a service that's supposed to be provided. College is a LOT of $$$$ nowadays and performance reviews by the students shouldn't be overlooked. If they are and the students don't feel they're getting their full worth, well then yea, you're going to see some backlash by students telling other students to avoid said teacher. Students are paying for a product AND a service. It's up to them to get the result product, it's up to the university and it's staff to provide the service.

If someone wants to steer other students away from particular teachers, I don't see a problem with it as long as there's a stated opinion behind it and it's not considered spamming strictly on a "don't take a class with this professor" thread type thing.

Thank you Kristie, it looks like one of the older wiser members actually understands what I am talking about too. I have a sour opinion of UND, because I was not satisfied with the product I was receiving.

Hmm...all but 2 or 3 of her bad ratings come from AVIT 100 or 102 students, with mainly positive feedback from 222/415 students. This seems to correlate with the lack of effort and desire to have material spoon-fed that I saw when teaching 102 students last semester. I like Leslie quite a bit, and seeing her personally attacked on an online forum like this ticks me off.

Take it as you will, but it was not a personal attack. A personal attack would be something along the lines of calling her stupid $##%$@ or calling her kids ugly, which I am obviously not doing here. Don't get me wrong she is a smart person, she is just not a good teacher in my opinion; especially in something a crucial as Aviation 102. I mean if teachers were invulnerable to criticism, especially in Aviation I do not even want to know what terrible things would happen.

But aside from her the main issue really is UND Aerospace's lazy power point teaching model. Maybe if a little bit of creativity and originality in teaching were to come about it would have made students like me decide to stay at UND. I am not expecting to be spoon fed information, but I am however expecting a teacher who challenges me to think and learn. But you bring up an interesting idea, isn't a teachers job to actually teach information ("Spoon feed", if you must put it that way)?

Wow, UND people really get defensive when you mention faults in either the program or faculty. I guess the wonderful well rounded liberal education from UND, did not teach to respect differing opinions. :insane:

 

[flyeagle111]

I wonder at what point aerospace faculty get tenure...It'd also be interesting to see what kind of salaries they make.

 

[nutz4life]

Aviation Orientation::guns:
Meterology:
221::insane:
222:opcorn:
Aerodynamics/323::chair:
Aviation meterology:
Systems:
Human Factors:
Flight psyology:
Long range navigation::tmyk:
Aviation Law::banghead::banghead::banghead::deadhorse:
325::sitaware:

 

[N261ND]

But aside from her the main issue really is UND Aerospace's lazy power point teaching model. Maybe if a little bit of creativity and originality in teaching were to come about it would have made students like me decide to stay at UND. I am not expecting to be spoon fed information, but I am however expecting a teacher who challenges me to think and learn.

so what would you suggest challenger?

 

[challenger]

so what would you suggest challenger?

An immersive environment that gets each and every student involved in the learning process, rather then having teachers read off Powerpoint's like drones would be a good start.

Not going to happen though, its just how stupid our education system has become. I will go to school in Minnesota where I get a state grant so it does not cost as much for nothing though.

 

[HVYMETALDRVR]

There is no competition for the impossible for me. My federal aid was maxed out and I cannot get approved for private student loans, so therefore I cannot fly at UND. I also consider that my 102 teacher Leslie Martin, was not that great of a teacher. So from what I saw when I was there, I do not feel that it was worth my money spent on attempting to force it to happen.

Fair enough, your situation sucks and I would be pissed but thats not a reason to hate the school. Down here in Miami things have picked up quite a bit, but we have the same problem. Not nearly as many students get approved for loans as in the past and it sucks to see people dream shattered because of money. But if there is a will there is a way. A college is a business and they want you to get approved for these loans just as much as you do... trust me.

I won't comment or speculate on any specific teacher but UND's instruction overall is head and shoulders better than what you will see all over this industry. Try going to ground school and having an instructor that hasn't actually flown the aircraft. A couple years ago this was very common.

 

[N261ND]

An immersive environment that gets each and every student involved in the learning process, rather then having teachers read off Powerpoint's like drones would be a good start.

Not going to happen though, its just how stupid our education system has become. I will go to school in Minnesota where I get a state grant so it does not cost as much for nothing though.

You need to get yourself involved in the learning process and the discussion. No one, including UND professors, are going to hold your hand and tell you to get involved. Sure being in class versus flying is a drag, its dry as bread sometimes. but thats why its the class portion and not the lab. But you need to respect the fact that they need to cover all of the material outlined by the FAA. If you don't get yourself involved, thats your problem. Jobs and opportunities are not going to come to you, even with all the hours and grades in the world.

 

[challenger]

You need to get yourself involved in the learning process and the discussion. No one, including UND professors, are going to hold your hand and tell you to get involved. Sure being in class versus flying is a drag, its dry as bread sometimes. but thats why its the class portion and not the lab. But you need to respect the fact that they need to cover all of the material outlined by the FAA. If you don't get yourself involved, thats your problem. Jobs and opportunities are not going to come to you, even with all the hours and grades in the world.

Get real buddy. Basically, through your thinking UND's model and professors are invulnerable to criticism and any problems at hand must be because of the student. There is no change that could be made because UND is already perfect and they have to follow 141 guidelines right? Thanks for insulting both my intelligence and yours with one stone. I also fail to see what getting jobs has to do with the way that material is presented in class

 

[flyeagle111]

Idk, maybe its just me coming from a boring hs, but I have enjoyed all of the aviation classes up to this point...102, 208, 250, 260...so far my professors have been great.

 

[WIFlyBoy]

Idk, maybe its just me coming from a boring hs, but I have enjoyed all of the aviation classes up to this point...102, 208, 250, 260...so far my professors have been great.

I have too, a majority of them are great. However there are a select few that are a complete waste of your time and some you learn absolutely nothing from. You'll find out when you take them.

 

[N261ND]

An immersive environment that gets each and every student involved in the learning process, rather then having teachers read off Powerpoint's like drones would be a good start.

Not going to happen though, its just how stupid our education system has become. I will go to school in Minnesota where I get a state grant so it does not cost as much for nothing though.

so please explain to us in detail what this immersive environment that gets each and every student involved in the learning process is.

Just curious, why are you even going to pay Minnesota tuition if you think you are getting "nothing"?

 

[BIGRIG]

so please explain to us in detail what this immersive environment that gets each and every student involved in the learning process is.

Just curious, why are you even going to pay Minnesota tuition if you think you are getting "nothing"?

It's not worth it. If you reference the master complainers other posts you will see that he has no answers to anything. He is out of und and he won't be back. Rest assured that he will not last in this industry. He has blamed everything at und except for himself. Don't worry Drew, you didn't insult his intelligence with your previous post. That's simply not possible....

I will laugh if he goes to a flight school that uses the king videos or the jepp videos to teach from. He will be begging for und powerpoints. I am guessing he has no clue what those are.

 

[challenger]

It's not worth it. If you reference the master complainers other posts you will see that he has no answers to anything. He is out of und and he won't be back. Rest assured that he will not last in this industry. He has blamed everything at und except for himself. Don't worry Drew, you didn't insult his intelligence with your previous post. That's simply not possible....

I will laugh if he goes to a flight school that uses the king videos or the jepp videos to teach from. He will be begging for und powerpoints. I am guessing he has no clue what those are.

bahahahahahahaha, I am going to fail because I am/was unhappy with UND? ("and never blame myself for my own shortcomings"), that is rich! Anymore insight for the world chief? You sure have me down, don't you? Why don't you get out of your arrogant fantasy world and realize that maybe even UND has changed for the worse since you attended. I am not the first to speak of this either.

Obviously, when I am selecting a flight school, I will make sure it is a proper fit. I am way more intelligent then you give me credit for.

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[challenger]

so please explain to us in detail what this immersive environment that gets each and every student involved in the learning process is.

Just curious, why are you even going to pay Minnesota tuition if you think you are getting "nothing"?

Active teaching, something not involving reading off a power point for an hour and a half. I could find a lot better of a way to spend my money then paying a crappy teacher to do that.

Not telling someone how something works but showing them as well.

Like I already said, utilizing laptops in class.

Engaging the students in class would also be a big one, it forces people to pay attention.

Anything that detracts from a professor talking alone at the front of the room for the entire class period.

Those would be a great start and really should be the standard in the first place.

I am going to school in Minnesota in hopes of a U of M school having better structure, if not Duluth is a more fun area for me and it will ultimately be cheaper because of state grants. My career goals require a bachelors so I have to do it somewhere either way.