Flap retraction on the runway

bksslc

bksslc

Well-Known Member
I was watching the landing video in the pictures from the road forum and both comments mentioned the pilot should have left the flaps down until clear of the runway. My flight instructor has hammered it into my head to retract the flaps upon landing and before applying brakes. He has always told me with the flaps down i'm still producing lift, which makes sense, and therefore applying brakes could lead to a loss of control due to not having the full weight of the aircraft on the landing gear.

What is the proper procedure as far as retracting flaps upon landing and why wait until clear of the runway as opposed to doing so on rollout?
 
To me it is a distraction I dont need. So unless absolutely necessary I leave them down until I come to a complete stop.
 
bksslc said:
I was watching the landing video in the pictures from the road forum and both comments mentioned the pilot should have left the flaps down until clear of the runway. My flight instructor has hammered it into my head to retract the flaps upon landing and before applying brakes. He has always told me with the flaps down i'm still producing lift, which makes sense, and therefore applying brakes could lead to a loss of control due to not having the full weight of the aircraft on the landing gear.

What is the proper procedure as far as retracting flaps upon landing and why wait until clear of the runway as opposed to doing so on rollout?
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I just saw that and was wondering the same thing. I was always taught to bring the flaps up right away and keep back pressure on the yoke to slow down before you touch the brakes.
 
The wings are producing lift, but you're on the ground & you're slowing down.

Why not leave em down and focus on holding centerline & controlled braking.
 
rdsoxpilot said:
The wings are producing lift, but you're on the ground & you're slowing down.

Why not leave em down and focus on holding centerline & controlled braking.
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I think the 'theory' is that if you jump on the brakes, what lift there is could cause one or all of the tires to start skidding a lot more easily, thus leading to no control to your braking and spinning off of the centerline. I don't know if this has ever happened, but until I see something that tells me the flap-then-brake method is wrong or pointless, I will continue to believe it is the 'more proper' way of performing a landing of this sort --in small aircraft, anyway.
 
There's merit to both sides of this argument. On the one hand, moving flaps while rolling out is a distraction, and, depending upon the aircraft, has the potential complication of the pilot grabbing the gear handle instead of the flap handle and causing a gear collapse. Yes, the flaps do add lift, but they also add drag (consider some of the Hawkers, which move the flaps to an almost perpendicular setting from the wing to cause significant drag). On the other hand, raising the flaps will put more weight on the mains and allow for more braking potential.

On some aircraft, the aircraft does handle considerably better on the ground with the flaps up, so this may be worth something to you depending upon what you're flying.

To play devil's advocate, if you started a skid on a tire (flaps up or down) and you realize it and reduce braking power to that wheel, the wheel will begin rolling again. So, it's not like an instant equation that as soon as a tire skids you wind up off the runway.

I suppose a more realistic answer would be "it depends" with respect to whether or not to retract flaps on the roll out. If you REALLY need short field performance, I would dump them as soon as possible after touchdown. Otherwise, I'd leave them down and clean the aircraft up once off the runway.
 
exactly..I was taught to bring them up and yoke aft for a short field landing..max braking effectiveness over a short distance. But everything depends on what aircraft you are flying and what type of flying you are doing :)
 
Back when I used to fly I always retracted the flaps as I was exiting the runway but before I held at the "hold short" line or crossed a runway.
 
Flaps past their first or approach/takeoff position tend to give more drag than lift. To me it always made sense to leave them extended until clear. Just my $0.02 + tax. Also one less thing to be distracted by on the active.
 
What about the third option, start retracting them when entering the flare.

Why? 'cause I can.

-Warning, this method does not work well for pipers..-
 
naw, you don't want to develop bad habits. What if one day you reach for that gear handle instead of the flaps in a multi? After you exit the runway, then you clean up the bird. Well, anyway, this was how I was taught.
 
sdfcvoh said:
Flaps past their first or approach/takeoff position tend to give more drag than lift. To me it always made sense to leave them extended until clear. Just my $0.02 + tax. Also one less thing to be distracted by on the active.
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Forgot how little planes work, but on Boeings, that's how it works. On the 757/767, flaps 1 & 5 produce more lift than drag, but as you add flaps down to 30, you create more drag than lift.


Of course the spoilers help kill lift too.


OK, I lied. I do know how some little planes work. Mine doesn't actually have any flaps. That is what a slip is for. It doesn't have a nose wheel either so I guess it's a real plane....:dunno:




:laff:
 
ASpilot2be said:
To me it is a distraction I dont need. So unless absolutely necessary I leave them down until I come to a complete stop.
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Ok, you get to turn in your Alaskan Pilot's License now........
Douglas said:
What about the third option, start retracting them when entering the flare.

Why? 'cause I can.

-Warning, this method does not work well for pipers..-
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- Actually: It works exceptionally well in the Cherokee 6 and I use the technique on a regular basis. Johnson bar flaps are da bomb.

If you're flying a light single it makes a huge amount of sense to get the flaps up ASAP thereby getting a lot more weight on wheels and therefore much more braking effectiveness. Pretty much taught to me from day one.
 
TallFlyer said:
Ok, you get to turn in your Alaskan Pilot's License now........
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:D I was actually taught to put them up upon landing when I learned at Mustang Air. I dont know if you have ever met our Chief CFI at UAA, but Mr. Stoddard will chew, and cuss you out if you do that.:cool:
 
Cptnchia said:
Forgot how little planes work, but on Boeings, that's how it works. On the 757/767, flaps 1 & 5 produce more lift than drag, but as you add flaps down to 30, you create more drag than lift.


Of course the spoilers help kill lift too.


OK, I lied. I do know how some little planes work. Mine doesn't actually have any flaps. That is what a slip is for. It doesn't have a nose wheel either so I guess it's a real plane....:dunno:




:laff:
Click to expand...


What is the typical take off flap setting for the 75/76, or does it depend on weight and other circumstances?

I once heard flaps 5-10-15.
 
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