Piper Meridian info

jrh

jrh

Well-Known Member
I have an interesting situation I'd like some advice on.

I might have the opportunity to be an instructor/mentor pilot for a client who is upgrading to a Piper Meridian. He is an instrument rated private pilot with about 400 hours TT and most of that time has been in a high performance piston single.

My first concern is making sure I'm competent to act as an instructor/mentor for this type of plane. I've got about 2500 total time, along with several hundred hours in various high performance piston singles (Turbo 206, SR-22, Mooney Bravo, Cessna Corvalis, etc.). Most of that time has been under IFR, in the flight levels on cross country trips, etc. However, my turbine/pressurized experience is limited to one trip in the right seat of a friend's King Air E90.

Can I safely handle teaching in the Meridian when all I've gone through is a simulator course?

My next concern is insurance. Am I insurable for giving instruction in a Meridian? What can I do to help the client get me insured? Does anyone with a background similar to mine have experience with getting insured in a turbine single like this?

Finally, assuming those first two issues can be worked out, what do you consider to be a fair charge/wage for being an instructor pilot in a Meridian? Normally we charge $294/day for pilot services, instructing, and/or ferrying, and I'm salaried...but that's all for flying piston singles. What is fair for this type of service in a Meridian? Should we charge more? Should I get paid more?

Thanks in advance for your wisdom.
 
Interesting. I've been faced with a very similar opportunity so I'll be tagging along.

I would certainly think your daily rate could be higher. The guy clearly isn't hurting for money.
 
I fly a meridian right now for the owner. I make 250 a day, and got insured with 700 hours. You need to attend a certification program for insurance. I attended simcom. It is a really fun airplane but is cramptes as hell.
 
ftyflyboy said:
You should be paid more than your current daily rate, plus some type of babysitter fee. 400hrs...oh my
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What are Meridian corporate or contract pilots charging and getting paid these days?

Basically, if I don't do this gig, how much would my client need to pay somebody else?

This situation is a little unique in that I'm salaried by my current company. So the question of what to charge the client and what to pay me really are completely independent of each other.
 
jrh said:
What are Meridian corporate or contract pilots charging and getting paid these days?

Basically, if I don't do this gig, how much would my client need to pay somebody else?

This situation is a little unique in that I'm salaried by my current company. So the question of what to charge the client and what to pay me really are completely independent of each other.
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Do you have some sort of contact that doesn't allow you to do freelance work or something?

I think I'd start my rate somewhere around $400, maybe $350 for the first year.
 
Inverted said:
I fly a meridian right now for the owner. I make 250 a day, and got insured with 700 hours. You need to attend a certification program for insurance. I attended simcom. It is a really fun airplane but is cramptes as hell.
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Do insurance companies differentiate between simply flying the plane and giving instruction in it?

What I mean is, would it be more difficult for me to get insured to give the owner training in the plane than it would be to get insured simply for me to fly the plane? Or is it all one and the same from the insurance company's perspective?
 
Inverted said:
I fly a meridian right now for the owner. I make 250 a day, and got insured with 700 hours. You need to attend a certification program for insurance. I attended simcom. It is a really fun airplane but is cramptes as hell.
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Wow. I have never been in one, but if a guy that drives a pitts around says its cramped... then there is no arguing with that guy ;)

To the original poster: I don't know anything about the airplane other than seeing it on a ramp. I just wanted to say good luck with the opportunity. It sounds like it could be a lot of fun (and good for the wallet as well).
 
Kudo's on putting your customer first by questioning your qualifications to teach in the a.c.

All the best, with the gig; sounds like fun!
 
jrh said:
Do insurance companies differentiate between simply flying the plane and giving instruction in it?

What I mean is, would it be more difficult for me to get insured to give the owner training in the plane than it would be to get insured simply for me to fly the plane? Or is it all one and the same from the insurance company's perspective?
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I can almost guarantee your normal instructor policy will not cover this. Most will not cover instruction in turbine aircraft. You will need to be a named insured on his policy which will most likely require attending a sim course.
You will probably need to charge him a daily rate for instruction- whatever the market sustains in your area. I can't tell you what that is.
The sim training... well that's your call. At a minimum he should pay for it and your expenses.
 
jrh said:
Can I safely handle teaching in the Meridian when all I've gone through is a simulator course?
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To put two greenhorns in a high performance, complex turbine powered airplane is a recipe for disaster, in my opinion.

If I were you, I would advise your student to find a pilot who has been flying Meridians for some time as their knowledge and proficiency level will accommodate their lack of experience. No simulator training will fully prepare you for the real world situations. Even, descent planning at 300-400 knots over the ground is incredibly tricky to start.

Find a Meridian instructor. Its in your student's best interest.
 
Blackhawk said:
I can almost guarantee your normal instructor policy will not cover this. Most will not cover instruction in turbine aircraft. You will need to be a named insured on his policy which will most likely require attending a sim course.
You will probably need to charge him a daily rate for instruction- whatever the market sustains in your area. I can't tell you what that is.
The sim training... well that's your call. At a minimum he should pay for it and your expenses.
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Ok, thanks for the advice.

Both the client and I have planned all along to do a sim course and have me as a named insured. I just didn't know if that would be enough.
 
meritflyer said:
To put two greenhorns in a high performance, complex turbine powered airplane is a recipe for disaster, in my opinion.

If I were you, I would advise your student to find a pilot who has been flying Meridians for some time as their knowledge and proficiency level will accommodate their lack of experience. No simulator training will fully prepare you for the real world situations. Even, descent planning at 300-400 knots over the ground is incredibly tricky to start.

Find a Meridian instructor. Its in your student's best interest.
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Fair enough. I appreciate your honesty.

Could you elaborate more on this though? That's one of the reasons I posted here, because I want to know the risk factors involved.

The Meridian is a 250 ktas airplane in the low flight levels. I didn't see that as being drastically different than the airplanes I've been flying, even though they go 50 knots slower and a couple thousand feet lower.

But I don't want to downplay anything. As I said, I'm new to the turbine/pressurized world. I just want to understand more specifically what sort of situations could bite me.
 
jrh said:
The Meridian is a 250 ktas airplane in the low flight levels. I didn't see that as being drastically different than the airplanes I've been flying, even though they go 50 knots slower and a couple thousand feet lower.
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It's not uncommon to see the Meridian in the descent reach 300+ over the ground.

Don't be mistaken, descent planning and other high speed regimes that high flying, turbine airplanes experience are nothing remotely like high speed piston airplanes.
 
meritflyer said:
It's not uncommon to see the Meridian in the descent reach 300+ over the ground. Don't be mistaken, descent planning and other high speed regimes that high flying, turbine airplanes experience are nothing remotely like high speed piston airplanes.
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Ok. I'm not disputing that.

Could you explain *how* it's different though? What are some of the "oh crap" scenarios I might find myself in as a low time Meridian pilot?
 
jrh said:
Do insurance companies differentiate between simply flying the plane and giving instruction in it?

What I mean is, would it be more difficult for me to get insured to give the owner training in the plane than it would be to get insured simply for me to fly the plane? Or is it all one and the same from the insurance company's perspective?
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That I am not sure actually. I wasnt an instructor when I was put on the insurance but the other pilot that sometimes flies has done instruction in it. Insurance also requires us to do annual recurrent training.
 
Insurance can go a number of ways. I have heard some insurances wont insure anyone with less than 1000TT. I was insured with actually like 600 hours total and 60 hours of turbine SIC time in a PC-12.

I have seen some insurances require owners to have 100 hours of dual in the Meridian, now that depends on a bunch of factors not just hours. Most the time its been due to age.

Flying VFR is cake for the most part. Ya it flies faster but its not much faster than high performance pistons below 10k. The Meridian really shines 15k and above, they love the flight levels. It reminds me of an Arrow as far as landing goes, its not that bad at all. Nothing a few hours wouldn't solve. What took the longest for me was getting used to the autopilot. From what I understand its the same type thats in the Cirrus. It really yanks and banks on the autopilot. There is no half bank option so when it intercepts a radial or is turning to a new waypoint sometimes it gets like a 60 degree bank. With pax on board you can imagine that doesn't go to well. Also if you are on a nice cruise descent coming out of the flight levels and you change the altimeter setting from 29.92 to 30.24 the plane will dive drastically to it. So you get used to turning knobs real slow or kicking the autopilot off to make changes.

Flying the plane its self isnt bad at all. Its a joy to fly. Engine management is really easy. You dont have a prop or mixture to mess with. You really arent concerend with RPM so much as ITT, and Torque. But you have new stuff to play with, pressurization which is easy, bleed air and the ECS system will be new.
 
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