Looks like California is now regulating flight schools

minitour said:
The word "programs" means nothing to you?

-mini
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It's not the word "programs" that is bothering me.

It's the "total charges of two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500) or less" that concerns me.

I would try to make the argument that the program is divided into modules of $2500 each and at no time will the school ever have more than $2500 collected in advance from the student. However, I don't think I would be successful with this argument. But you never know and it might be worth a try.

Joe
 
JOEFRIDAY2 said:
It's not the word "programs" that is bothering me.

It's the "total charges of two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500) or less" that concerns me.
Click to expand...


You keep adjusting the quote to fit what you're trying to say.
(f) An institution that does not award degrees and that solely provides educational programs for total charges of two thousand
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five hundred dollars($2,500) or less when no part of the total charges is paid from state or federal student financial aid programs.
This is listed under Article 4. Exemptions of Chapter 310. It is (5) (f).​
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"Educational programs".

Not "total charges of two thousand five hundred ($2,500) or less... ...per student." Per program.

...and for some reason the quote tags won't come out of the middle of the regulation text. I keep trying to edit that to make it work but it isn't.

-mini
 
I just got CC'ed on some emails circulating around between some of the big flight schools in the central valley and they are all threatening to leave the state or shut down if they can't get this bill reversed or receive exempt status. One thing I did not realize is that it is way more that $5,000 plus .75%. Most, if not all, flight schools are not operating with a 1:1 ratio thanks to the economy and loss of commercial student loans. Also, having an audit performed to show the financial health of a flight school can run upwards of $30,000 to perform and then there is also an instutional fee(?) that one flight school stated would cost them $25,000. This means that it will cost a flight school nearly $70,000 dollars to meet all the demands of this bill. Looks bad for CA flight schools if this bill stands. :(
 
subpilot said:
I just got CC'ed on some emails circulating around between some of the big flight schools in the central valley and they are all threatening to leave the state or shut down if they can't get this bill reversed or receive exempt status. One thing I did not realize is that it is way more that $5,000 plus .75%. Most, if not all, flight schools are not operating with a 1:1 ratio thanks to the economy and loss of commercial student loans but also having an audit performed to show the financial health of a flight school can run upwards of $30,000 to perform and then there is also an instutional fee(?) that one flight school stated would cost them $25,000. This means that it will cost a flight school nearly $70,000 dollars to meet all the demands of this bill. Looks bad for CA flight schools if this bill stands. :(
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Or the first person that walks in the door gets to pay $150k for their ratings (+.75%) instead of $80k.

But the students are going to be protected now!

-mini
 
A program total cost of $10000, divided into $2500 sections. . .is still. . .wait for it. . .

A total charge of greater than $2500.

TOTAL.
 
Looks like Arizona is now regulating flight schools

It appears that the regulations for flight schools in Arizona are far more strict than the regulations for flight schools in California.

Arizona is requiring a bond, an application fee, a student trust fund recovery fee, background check, course information, plus a whole lot of forms from flight schools that are not part 141.

http://www.jetuniversitysucks.com/arizonaregulation.htm


The good news is that the flight school is exempt if it is PART 141.

Joe
 
surreal1221 said:
A program total cost of $10000, divided into $2500 sections. . .is still. . .wait for it. . .

A total charge of greater than $2500.

TOTAL.
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I'll charge you $2,499 for my pre-solo program.

Congrats. You passed. Would you like to enter my checkride prep program? $2,400.

Congrats. You passed.

Etc.

"Educational Programs"

Not "per student".

Big difference.

Better yet. The Educational Programs (flight instruction) are FREE....but the airplane rental is $400/hr. If you're going to include aircraft rental, everyone in CA better buy their own plane QUICK!!!!

-min
 
Re: Looks like Arizona is now regulating flight schools

There is no such thing as a "flight school" that is not 141 certificated. Just ask the FAA.

...even then, they're "pilot schools", not "flight schools".

142 is "Training Center".

I'd tell 'em to pound sand.

-mini
 
minitour said:
I'll charge you $2,499 for my pre-solo program.

Congrats. You passed. Would you like to enter my checkride prep program? $2,400.

Congrats. You passed.

Etc.

"Educational Programs"

Not "per student".

Big difference.

Better yet. The Educational Programs (flight instruction) are FREE....but the airplane rental is $400/hr. If you're going to include aircraft rental, everyone in CA better buy their own plane QUICK!!!!

-min
Click to expand...

Oh...right...I'm an idiot.

Muh. . .I don't live in CA, nor do I need to do any other flight training...so I don't really care...but I will enjoy the comedy that will occur as flight schools, instructors, and students all attempt to find legal ways around the law of the land.
 
Re: Looks like Arizona is now regulating flight schools

*ahem*

"No Mr. State person. We're not a flight school. I simply rent airplanes to people for $450/hr for a C172. My proficiency professionals (professional title) go with them for insurance and FAA regulatory reasons unless they are not needed. As you see, we don't charge for any sort of instruction at all. They are not paying to be taught, only to fly the airplane."

-mini
 
Re: Looks like Arizona is now regulating flight schools

It looks like Arizona has done their homework on this one. Pretty tough stuff.

Joe
 
surreal1221 said:
Muh. . .I don't live in CA, nor do I need to do any other flight training...so I don't really care...but I will enjoy the comedy that will occur as flight schools, instructors, and students all attempt to find legal ways around the law of the land.
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I thought that's what we're supposed to do! Right? Get the $200 lawyer to get out of the $180 speeding ticket? Find the "legal ways around the law of the land".

I learned that one from JC!

-mini
 
I'm pretty dense, but I'm not going to pay a traffic counselor a dime to get me out of speeding ticket - when I was speeding - which has been the case for each of my traffic citations.

Although, the silver spoon kiddies won't dare pass up an opportunity to waste Mommy and Daddy's money on a Lawyer to save them from probation, revocation, or community service.

Tsk Tsk.
 
Re: Looks like Arizona is now regulating flight schools

minitour said:
*ahem*

"No Mr. State person. We're not a flight school. I simply rent airplanes to people for $450/hr for a C172. My proficiency professionals (professional title) go with them for insurance and FAA regulatory reasons unless they are not needed. As you see, we don't charge for any sort of instruction at all. They are not paying to be taught, only to fly the airplane."

-mini
Click to expand...

And the state guy will say, "feet back and spread 'em". "You can talk to the judge about your airplanes".
 
surreal1221 said:
I'm pretty dense, but I'm not going to pay a traffic counselor a dime to get me out of speeding ticket - when I was speeding - which has been the case for each of my traffic citations.

Although, the silver spoon kiddies won't dare pass up an opportunity to waste Mommy and Daddy's money on a Lawyer to save them from probation, revocation, or community service.

Tsk Tsk.
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I don't disagree. Just sayin...........don't be hatin. I'm "learning" from my JC "brethren"! Just look at everything I've learned.

I now hate scabs, 141 pilot schools, Gojet, Obama (...no Bush...no Clinton...no Obama....no I hate Obushton mega President of DOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!) , abortions and speeding tickets.

I'd tell 'em to pound sand...because I can pay an attorney $7,000 to find a way to get me out of the $5,000 application fee! ...by charging $900/hr for a 172 rental.

-mini
 
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