I'm in the market for an airplane

N

N99999

New Member
I wasn't quite sure if I should post this in general or the trading post.

I'm in the market for an airplane. I have good credit, but not perfect, so I'll be paying cash. This will be my first airplane, and I tell you, the selection process has not been easy. I'd like to get something that will cost me under $50/hr and cruise at 140kts or more with a range, with reserve, of at least 500nm. Right now, I'm looking at purchase prices around $40k. Six-place airplanes cross my mind now and then, but I'm thinking finding someone that'll sell me block time is the way to go when I want to carry a load of girls to the islands.

The Grumman Tiger seems to fit into this category, but I've heard that a bird strikes or water getting under the skin of the wing can be extremely expensive. I like that it's fixed-gear, fast, efficient and fun to fly.

I'm a low-time instrument rated pilot with a job that allows me to travel and work remotely, so sole ownership of something a little lower-end is preferable to a high-end partnership. I'd like to tour the country and live in different areas.

The most sensible advice I get from others is to get something transitional, fixed-pitch prop and fixed gear for my first plane. I'd probably be ok with an Arrow, and I think starting out with an RG would improve my discipline in GUMPS
 
Surreal asked a similar question some months back. Some things to look at that may be a value in terms of the amount of airplane for the money - a Piper Pacer or Tri-Pacer or a Stinson 108 series airplane. These are pretty good airplanes.
 
Some of the older V-tail Bonanzas are can be found in your price range. I know we are looking at some of them right now to replace our cherokee 140.
 
Advice: Take it for what it's worth...you get what you pay for.

If you are looking at carrying 6 people, 40k and $50/hr is not going to happen. Anything that carries six is going to be burning at LEAST 12 gallons/hr, and that's $48/hr just for fuel, not including MX, insurance, tiedown/hangar and all the myrad other costs involved. You're going to be burning 8 in a 172, and even that is $32/hr.

Dakotas/182s right now are north of 80k for something that is clean, and north of 90k if you want something with updated avionics.

Something like an older Bo is going to have wicked ADs and part costs are in the stratosphere. There's a reason they're cheap.

Besides, anything RG wise is going to kill you on insurance and MX. Real world annual costs (NOT just the inspection, but fixing stuff that is typical) is going to be in the $1800/yr range, not including unplanned stuff, and insurance will be certainly north of that for a low time pilot.

Unless you are looking at an older 172 or PA-28 (or smaller) that has original avionics, paying $40k for anything is asking for big financial problems down the road, as only beaters usually get sold for that, even in the current market. The smart money is hanging onto their clean airplanes waiting for a better market.

This is real world, and not wishful "reading Trade-a-Plane number crunching on the back of the airport diner napkin."

I hate to be harsh, but I have seen WAY too many people burned by wishful thinking and lowball airplanes. They hear stories about low costs from a friend and it turns out their buddy's uncle is an A&P doing the work for free.

Richman
 
Richman said:
Advice: Take it for what it's worth...you get what you pay for.

If you are looking at carrying 6 people, 40k and $50/hr is not going to happen. Anything that carries six is going to be burning at LEAST 12 gallons/hr, and that's $48/hr just for fuel, not including MX, insurance, tiedown/hangar and all the myrad other costs involved. You're going to be burning 8 in a 172, and even that is $32/hr.

Dakotas/182s right now are north of 80k for something that is clean, and north of 90k if you want something with updated avionics.

Something like an older Bo is going to have wicked ADs and part costs are in the stratosphere. There's a reason they're cheap.

Besides, anything RG wise is going to kill you on insurance and MX. Real world annual costs (NOT just the inspection, but fixing stuff that is typical) is going to be in the $1800/yr range, not including unplanned stuff, and insurance will be certainly north of that for a low time pilot.

Unless you are looking at an older 172 or PA-28 (or smaller) that has original avionics, paying $40k for anything is asking for big financial problems down the road, as only beaters usually get sold for that, even in the current market. The smart money is hanging onto their clean airplanes waiting for a better market.

This is real world, and not wishful "reading Trade-a-Plane number crunching on the back of the airport diner napkin."

I hate to be harsh, but I have seen WAY too many people burned by wishful thinking and lowball airplanes. They hear stories about low costs from a friend and it turns out their buddy's uncle is an A&P doing the work for free.

Richman
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:

I hate to say it, but I couldn't agree more.

I'd suggest either continuing to rent whatever airplane you need, as you need it, or else significantly adjusting your expectations of ownership.

That means either budgeting more ($70k initially and $100/hour operating) or expecting less performance (along the lines of a very nice 152, or a clean but old 172).

I'm not trying to be a downer, but I deal with these situations all the time (including my own plane) and this is what I've found to be realistic.
 
I've seen some decent deals on Super Vikings out there.

You have to have excellent timing, but a lot of times you can snap up a deal because someone is in desperate need of cash and the plane has to go. I've seen three or four like that recently.
 
I would recommend a pre-J Mooney. It fits the performance bill you specified and there are many out there to choose from.
 
Sorry about that, I meant that the idea of a six-seater had crossed my mind, but felt it was a better idea to go with a 4-place plane and rent a six.

Did anyone have an opinion on the Tiger?

I missed my grandfather by a couple years on this whole mess, he'd had a couple Bonanzas, a Waco and flew just about everything in WWII as a service pilot; I'm sure he'd have had some advice.
 
Hi 9s,

Tigers are not too bad. Decent speed for the fuel consumed. Parts support is pretty good, and they have pretty strong type club. Kind of a bear in hot weather because of the canopy. If it rains a lot where you live, plan on getting wet.

My recommendation is figure out which type you want, and join the type club. These people have the absolute inside gouge on their specific breed, and they can tip you off on what to look for. I've found the information from these groups almost essential when dealing with sellers, and you can often see an aircraft advertised with these groups before it hits the trades because they want to "keep them in the family".

These cats can give you the real deal because they own the airplanes, and are not just "a guy who knows a girl whos going out this dude who saw Ferris fly a Tiger, so it must be pretty good" type of crowd.

The Grumman aircraft is the American Yankee Association:

http://www.aya.org/s/358/index.aspx

For Cessnas (minus the 150/152 and 177), I'd recommend the Cessna Pilots Association:

www.cessna.org

For 150/152s:

http://www.cessna150-152club.com

For Cardinals (177s):

http://www.cardinalflyers.com

For Raytheon/Beechcraft, try:

www.beechtalk.com

Pipers are kinda tough, because their membership has just fractured, but you can start with (except for Commanches):

www.piperowner.org

For all breeds of Piper Commanches:

http://www.comancheflyer.com

For the Mooney types:

http://www.moapilot.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.pl

There's always the AOPA board, but there is WAY, WAY too much chaff to sift through over there, and it's dominated by a couple of strong personalities. Your best bet is one of the type boards.

Airplanes cost real money to operate. True, the aquisition costs are SLIGHTLY lower now than they were, say, 3 years ago, but the real money has never been the cost, but in the upkeep. The devil will have his due, no matter.

Hope this helps!

Richman
 
killbilly said:
I've seen some decent deals on Super Vikings out there.

You have to have excellent timing, but a lot of times you can snap up a deal because someone is in desperate need of cash and the plane has to go. I've seen three or four like that recently.
Click to expand...

Wood wing and fabric fuselage. A Viking in poor repair or that has been treated badly is financial disaster waiting for someone.

These birds absolutely have to be hangared.

As I said, there is a reason they are "cheap"...

Richman
 
Richman said:
A Viking in poor repair or that has been treated badly is financial disaster waiting for someone.
Click to expand...

The same could be said for every make/model of plane out there. If someone is willing to accept the wood & fabric, the Viking's are a heck of a deal. But, the wood & fabric scare people off, which drives the prices lower than similarly performing airplanes.
 
Richman i disagree with you and I own an airplane so dont tell me I dont know the costs involved. Saying you cant get a decent airplane with newer avonics for under 40k is broad sweeping statement that just isnt true.


Infact anyone looking we have a 1969 Cherokee 140 for sale. Only about 320hrs on a overhauled engine. 3300TT. New paint last year. Avonics is two k-155 with VOR and glideslope. Aftermarket wingtips and stabilator tips to increase climb performance. Looking for around 28k.
 
Inverted25 said:
Saying you cant get a decent airplane with newer avonics for under 40k is broad sweeping statement that just isnt true.


Infact anyone looking we have a 1969 Cherokee 140 for sale. Only about 320hrs on a overhauled engine. 3300TT. New paint last year. Avonics is two k-155 with VOR and glideslope. Aftermarket wingtips and stabilator tips to increase climb performance. Looking for around 28k.
Click to expand...

I'm not quite sure that your example made your point. :o
 
It's tough for me since I'll be paying cash. Every month that goes by, I'm able to put back a significant amount towards the airplane fund -- if I wait another two or three months, I can buy a more expensive airplane. I feel a lot like a teenager without a car right now, chomping at the bit to buy something, but excercizing patience to get into the right plane; I can rent planes, but I can't really "go anywhere" and stay on my own terms in a rented airplane.

I'm looking for a good transitional plane that I won't lose a lot of money on, that's not too much airplane for a low time pilot (I don't want to be a Bonanza stereotype), and after a few hundred more hours, I won't have trouble selling.
 
Have you considered some of the homebuilts out there? You can get already built ones with lowtime that will meet your speed and distance requirements.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top