Deployment Question

Especially if you make O-4. :laff:

I didn't join the military to make money and get rich anyway. Regardless where you are in your career, saying that $100K/year isn't that much money especially with the amount of benefits and job security we have is a slap in the face to those struggling to even find a job.

Not great money though? What are you comparing O-4 pay to? Hell I am an E-5, with all the added benefits (medical, dental, tax free shopping, etc)I consider myself well off. Saying $100,000/year is "not great money" is laughable.

Stop your frocking whining jr and read what I said...I never said it's not that much. Perhaps I wasn't clear so to clear it up, it's not great when compared to an equal on the outside. Let's compare my pay as an O-4 over 17 years versus say a 17 year Capt at Southwest. I will make around $9,000 gross a month while he will make around $16,000 a month (without overtime), almost double what I make. My good bud with Southwest has already made up to $16k a month (just one or two months, not his norm) as a FO his third year with overtime and a senior Captain can make over $30k a month with Southwest. In addition, live in San Diego, $100k does not go that far. Live in Corinth, Mississippi, it goes further. It's all relative.
 
Stop your frocking whining jr and read what I said...I never said it's not that much. Perhaps I wasn't clear so to clear it up, it's not great when compared to an equal on the outside. Let's compare my pay as an O-4 over 17 years versus say a 17 year Capt at Southwest. I will make around $9,000 gross a month while he will make around $16,000 a month (without overtime), almost double what I make. My good bud with Southwest has already made up to $16k a month (just one or two months, not his norm) as a FO his third year with overtime and a senior Captain can make over $30k a month with Southwest. In addition, live in San Diego, $100k does not go that far. Live in Corinth, Mississippi, it goes further. It's all relative.

You're right, you didn't say "it's not that much" you said "Not great money", which I pointed out. Here let me refresh your memory:

If you pin on O-4 at the end of ten years, as an aviator, you will make $100K or so, especially with the bonus. Not great money but decent though it takes 10 years to get there.

And I think you're misconstruing whining for calling you out. I asked for an explanation as to what you were comparing it to and now you gave it. You're right though, it's all relative, I didn't grow up in those rich areas where 100k doesn't mean much. In my 10 years in the AF, I have been spoiled by stuff like BAH, and all the benefits as I mentioned in an earlier post. Currently, my OHA is almost as much as my paycheck every two weeks stateside. I know I could be making a lot more on the outside, but that's not why I do it, as I'm sure you don't either.


"junior". Talk like that will get your bags rigged up on the bomb rack in my C-130. :rotfl:
 
You're right, you didn't say "it's not that much" you said "Not great money", which I pointed out. Here let me refresh your memory:

And allow me to refresh yours after the fact, which is what I was referring to. Look turbo, we can argue about this all day but in the end, what I said was absolutely true.

Regardless where you are in your career, saying that $100K/year isn't that much money especially with the amount of benefits and job security we have is a slap in the face to those struggling to even find a job.

And I think you're misconstruing whining for calling you out. I asked for an explanation as to what you were comparing it to and now you gave it. You're right though, it's all relative, I didn't grow up in those rich areas where 100k doesn't mean much. In my 10 years in the AF, I have been spoiled by stuff like BAH, and all the benefits as I mentioned in an earlier post. Currently, my OHA is almost as much as my paycheck every two weeks stateside. I know I could be making a lot more on the outside, but that's not why I do it, as I'm sure you don't either.

No, you're whining, I've seen children whine less. For a moment I thought you were going to cry. Again, $100k does not make one rich except maybe over time depending on investments, savings, cost of living, etc and that varies anyway. Spoiled by BHA, OHA, benefits? Whatever makes you happy LOL.

"junior". Talk like that will get your bags rigged up on the bomb rack in my C-130. :rotfl:

Good thing I'm not in your C-130 then, I might be worried about you junior...err ace....slick...whatever :rolleyes:
 
For the OP, here's an important question you should consider:

What's more important to you: Being a pilot who is in the military, or serving in the military by flying as a pilot? If being a pilot is more important than serving in the military, then I would caution you to weigh your choices carefully. What happens if you wash out of flight school or get physically disqualified, but you are locked into a multi year service contract? Will you be happy with that? My partner in the final stages of flight school was a big Tour de France fan. At the end of a long day of training, I would go to the simulator to prepare for the next day's flight, but he went home to watch TV. At the end of the last flight, his cumulative grade point average was .01 short of the minimum grade to earn your wings. A few weeks later he became an infantry officer. He was fortunate, as that is normally a highly sought after position. Washouts normally ended up in supply or aviation logistics or some less-than-glamorous, albeit very important job.

Even for those who end up in aviation, we don't always fly. I've been in for over 20 yrs. Of that, I've had 2 yrs of flight school, two 3 yr tours in an operational squadron (where I made 4 of my depolyments), and 2 yrs flying passengers in a King Air -- and I consider myself fortunate. All in all, that's about 2700 hrs over 20+ yrs.
 
Got the good word. Still can't believe it...hasn't really sunked in yet that I am going to fly the T-45C and I am finally getting away from South Texas.
 
Got the good word. Still can't believe it...hasn't really sunked in yet that I am going to fly the T-45C and I am finally getting away from South Texas.

Nice man, I felt the same way exactly. Did gatz give you the good word by chance?
 
Yep...and he pulled for me to go to Meridian without him I would be moving down the road to krock. I feel very lucky.
 
Yep...and he pulled for me to go to Meridian without him I would be moving down the road to krock. I feel very lucky.

Good deal. I still remember him in his office (he was XO at the time though)......he's like "John, what did you want?"...."Tailhook in Meridian sir"......and he jumps up....."GOIN THERE!!!" haha. I bet he has been an awesome skipper for you guys

MikeD, yeah it is a long program, especially now when they really can't wing dudes too fast (backup in the Hornet FRS's apparently). Most of my helo and P-3 friends were winged months ago.....oh well, 2 solo 2v1 ACM events to go until soft wings so I can't complain (14 months later cough cough)
 
MikeD, yeah it is a long program, especially now when they really can't wing dudes too fast (backup in the Hornet FRS's apparently). Most of my helo and P-3 friends were winged months ago.....oh well, 2 solo 2v1 ACM events to go until soft wings so I can't complain (14 months later cough cough)

Sure they can wing you now. Do like the AF did with "banked pilots". Until FRS opens, I'm sure you can be used on a fast-attack SSN or ballistic SSBN somewhere. Or if you don't want to be underwater, am sure there is a oiler or combat stores ship that could use some staff officers until FRS opens.

Would do you good to work hand in hand with your black shoe bretheren........


:)
 
Sure they can wing you now. Do like the AF did with "banked pilots". Until FRS opens, I'm sure you can be used on a fast-attack SSN or ballistic SSBN somewhere. Or if you don't want to be underwater, am sure there is a oiler or combat stores ship that could use some staff officers until FRS opens.

Would do you good to work hand in hand with your black shoe bretheren........


:)

Shhhhhh.....don't say that so loud :D
 
What's more important to you: Being a pilot who is in the military, or serving in the military by flying as a pilot? If being a pilot is more important than serving in the military, then I would caution you to weigh your choices carefully.
Honestly flying is more important to me. It may sound selfish, but if I couldn't fly I wouldn't want to join the military. How many people are actually there who genuinely want to serve? I would imagine there are many people in there who are there first to make money, have a job, benefits, whatever.

On the other hand, I was talking to some Army Nat'l Guard recruiters who were telling me what I could do if it didn't work out. They were saying I could go into intelligence, go to school to learn Farsi, and have a good paycheck. To me that would be cool, I could rent a plane on the weekends or whenever. So I would find something I enjoy if I didn't get a flying slot. I wouldn't be miserable.

Washouts normally ended up in supply or aviation logistics or some less-than-glamorous, albeit very important job.
I thought by being in training, that assured you of a pilot slot. Flight training is expensive, and the gov't wouldn't want to pay for someones' training just to find out they had a medical problem or weren't good enough. Its possible to perform so badly in flight training that you won't get a pilot seat?


Even for those who end up in aviation, we don't always fly. I've been in for over 20 yrs. Of that, I've had 2 yrs of flight school, two 3 yr tours in an operational squadron (where I made 4 of my depolyments), and 2 yrs flying passengers in a King Air -- and I consider myself fortunate. All in all, that's about 2700 hrs over 20+ yrs.
Yes- that is a con I am looking at. The planes in the military are the coolest aircraft in the world, and it would be an amazing opportunity to fly them. It just seems like the flying would be much less than a civilian pilot career. I talked with a family friend who was a marine aviator and told me he was lucky to get 20-30 hours a month flying fighters. I could almost fly that much on my own!

Thanks for the reply, I am telling myself to wait making a decision, and get as much info as possible. I am thinking of going into any branch of the military, and flying any kind of aircraft, fixed wing or helicopter. Just not UAVs. It could be as late as this summer before I decide, but I won't look back, and I will have made an educated, well thought decision.
 
On the other hand, I was talking to some Army Nat'l Guard recruiters who were telling me what I could do if it didn't work out. They were saying I could go into intelligence, go to school to learn Farsi, and have a good paycheck. To me that would be cool, I could rent a plane on the weekends or whenever. So I would find something I enjoy if I didn't get a flying slot. I wouldn't be miserable.

Farsi isn't an easy language to learn, if you have no previous exposure to it.

I thought by being in training, that assured you of a pilot slot. Flight training is expensive, and the gov't wouldn't want to pay for someones' training just to find out they had a medical problem or weren't good enough. Its possible to perform so badly in flight training that you won't get a pilot seat?

Is that a real question? This isn't Joe's FBO, where so long as you dump money to the place, they keep you flying. If you suck or are unsafe or just aren't picking up flying, you washout. Simple as that.

Yes- that is a con I am looking at. The planes in the military are the coolest aircraft in the world, and it would be an amazing opportunity to fly them. It just seems like the flying would be much less than a civilian pilot career. I talked with a family friend who was a marine aviator and told me he was lucky to get 20-30 hours a month flying fighters. I could almost fly that much on my own!

Remember though, its not a flying club. You have to be able to put up with the unpredictable lifestyle, and utilize some of the aircraft as the weapons they're designed to be. If you can't do that, don't waste your time. You either have it in you, or you don't.

Thanks for the reply, I am telling myself to wait making a decision, and get as much info as possible. I am thinking of going into any branch of the military, and flying any kind of aircraft, fixed wing or helicopter. Just not UAVs. It could be as late as this summer before I decide, but I won't look back, and I will have made an educated, well thought decision.

I highlighted that, because you NEED to understand that ANYTHING is a possibility assignment-wise in the military. Your likes and desires and what you want to do, isn't very high up on the list of their priorities.
 
Honestly flying is more important to me. It may sound selfish, but if I couldn't fly I wouldn't want to join the military. How many people are actually there who genuinely want to serve? I would imagine there are many people in there who are there first to make money, have a job, benefits, whatever.

Lot's of people. As an example, for a commissioned army officer who wants to branch aviation, there are no guarantees they will earn a flight slot. West Point or ROTC cadets compete for these slots knowing full well the chances are minimal and that no matter what they will serve in the Army regardless.

On the other hand, I was talking to some Army Nat'l Guard recruiters who were telling me what I could do if it didn't work out. They were saying I could go into intelligence, go to school to learn Farsi, and have a good paycheck. To me that would be cool, I could rent a plane on the weekends or whenever. So I would find something I enjoy if I didn't get a flying slot. I wouldn't be miserable.

Or you could become and Infantry Officer, an Armor Officer, a Transportation Officer, or serve in a myriad of other specialties. As an exception to what I wrote above, a cadet who serves in the guard can get a guaranteed contract specifying their branch as long as the unit accepts them.

I thought by being in training, that assured you of a pilot slot. Flight training is expensive, and the gov't wouldn't want to pay for someones' training just to find out they had a medical problem or weren't good enough. Its possible to perform so badly in flight training that you won't get a pilot seat?

Yes, in the Army if you fail out of flight school you are re-branched needs of the Army. (This is rare as the selection process is so good hardly anyone fails out).

Yes- that is a con I am looking at. The planes in the military are the coolest aircraft in the world, and it would be an amazing opportunity to fly them. It just seems like the flying would be much less than a civilian pilot career. I talked with a family friend who was a marine aviator and told me he was lucky to get 20-30 hours a month flying fighters. I could almost fly that much on my own!

Flying a lot is over rated IMO. I left the Army to fly full time as a civilian. I flew almost twice the amount of hours in a single year as I did in seven years of Army aviation. The flying lost its luster with so much repetition and I missed the leadership and management tasks I had while in the Army. There are so many opportunities outside of flying the military can offer. And you really don't know what is out there and what you may be interested in. As an example, here are 4 Army Officer careers that all started in active duty aviation doing the exact same thing - all commissioned aviation and were Chinook pilots.

1 - After flying the line for 7 years the Army sent him to grad school for engineering and is now at the Naval Experimental Test Pilot School.

2 - After flying the line for 7 years, she left AD and is now a full time logistician in a guard aviation unit and is a part time UH-60 pilot.

3 - After 7 years flying the line the Army sent him to grad school for statistics and he is now a statistician for the Army serving in their major plans division. (He's a dork and loves it).

4. After 7 years he got out to fly civilian cargo, then came back in through the guard. Currently a full time ROTC instructor and a part time guard pilot.

All four of these people initially thought all they wanted in life was to fly as much as possible and it turned out they developed other interests and specialties they love. For all but one who doesn't fly anymore, flying is a side job and is an added benefit.
 
Even for those who end up in aviation, we don't always fly. I've been in for over 20 yrs. Of that, I've had 2 yrs of flight school, two 3 yr tours in an operational squadron (where I made 4 of my depolyments), and 2 yrs flying passengers in a King Air -- and I consider myself fortunate. All in all, that's about 2700 hrs over 20+ yrs.

I didn't see this but I certainly have a similar experience. Military flying can be hit and miss at times. I've got 17 years active duty, on a one year non-flying tour but did 4 back-to-back flying tours after flight school and have 2500 hours to show for it and my guess, if all goes right, I'll have just over 3000 hours total when I retire in 2013. There are a few pages in my log book with a total of 3 hours a month due to lack of funding...or lack of parts....bad weather, etc. As an O-4, when flying was far and few between, I gave up countless hours to JO's who wanted to rack of flight time. The flying just isn't always there. Not to discourage of course but to let you know that there will be more time spent at a desk working on evals, paperwork, dealing with the bottom 10% of your sailors than in the air. Just the way it is.
 
How many people are actually there who genuinely want to serve? I would imagine there are many people in there who are there first to make money, have a job, benefits, whatever.
I have done this for 22 years now, not as a pilot, but as a crew chief/mechanic on helos. I can tell you that about 80% of the people here are here to serve our country. The other 20% are here for what we call working welfare. Thus 80% of the population does 100% of the work. There is a lot of good advice here. But one more facet to the realm of Army Aviation, if you make it through flight school but can't be trained to combat readiness, then you are subjected to a flight evaluation board. If they deem you are not trainable you may end up piloting... a boat... :D
 
Honestly flying is more important to me. It may sound selfish, but if I couldn't fly I wouldn't want to join the military

Don't join the military as a plan B because you're having a hard time finding a flying gig. For some reason what you said above really pissed me off. You're a military officer first, pilot second.
 
Don't join the military as a plan B because you're having a hard time finding a flying gig. For some reason what you said above really pissed me off. You're a military officer first, pilot second.

Why would you be really pissed off? I mean, you're a cadet. I could see annoyed. But don't waste effort getting pissed off over this kind of stuff. Active duty AF (if you make it) will have enough ass-clownery to piss you off for a good while.
 
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