1st in-flight failure

:hiya:
Joe Gremlin said:
Show me a pilot who has never flown un-airworthy aircraft and I'll show you a pilot who has never flown for a living.
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I haven't ever left the field with an un-airworthy aircraft...and I fly for a living.
If you are a professional pilot you DO NOT fly an un-airworthy aircraft...if you just fly for a living you may, I guess.
 
Joe Gremlin said:
If that's true (and I have my doubts) the you are clearly the exception, not the rule. Almost none of the planes I flew for pay would have made it through a ramp check.
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really?
talk about lowering the bar....sorry, but that is the same as working for free...cause I would be fired or have to quit...and I did quit a job I really liked, except for the fact that the guy would not follow my directive to maintain the aircraft accordingly.

So the guy hired another guy who would fly an aircraft in substandard condition.
 
Bumblebee said:
really?
talk about lowering the bar....sorry, but that is the same as working for free...cause I would be fired or have to quit...and I did quit a job I really liked, except for the fact that the guy would not follow my directive to maintain the aircraft accordingly.
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Lowing the bar? I was just trying to work my way up the ladder and keep a roof over my head. If that was lowering the bar, well then I guess we'll just have to blame the entire state of the industry on me and guys like me. :rolleyes:
 
Bumblebee said:
:hiya:
I haven't ever left the field with an un-airworthy aircraft...and I fly for a living.
If you are a professional pilot you DO NOT fly an un-airworthy aircraft...if you just fly for a living you may, I guess.
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Professionals get paid to fly. Hard to do that when you're on the street without a job.
 
Joe Gremlin said:
Professionals get paid to fly. Hard to do that when you're on the street without a job.
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...especially when there are guys that will fly substandard equipment...it's the same as paying for a job, except in this case it's allowing the employer to subsidize the operation with the risk of your ticket and your life...but that's just me.

If a professional is on the street because he is unwilling to fly equipment that is not airworthy, it is because there is someone else who is not a professional who is willing to do so.
 
I remember my first solo lost comm and it can get you pumped a little bit. I launched off the USS Kitty Hawk after my first day of CQ in the T-2C and its one radio failed. I had to climb through kind of nasty weather to get on top and fly back to NAS North Island lost comm, Class B airspace. Not a huge deal but in my haste, I accidentally squawked 7700 vice 7600 :o.
 
bunk22 said:
I remember my first solo lost comm and it can get you pumped a little bit. I launched off the USS Kitty Hawk after my first day of CQ in the T-2C and its one radio failed. I had to climb through kind of nasty weather to get on top and fly back to NAS North Island lost comm, Class B airspace. Not a huge deal but in my haste, I accidentally squawked 7700 vice 7600 :o.
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hey I was on CV 63 for WestPac'81 G3 Division
 
bunk22 said:
I remember my first solo lost comm and it can get you pumped a little bit. I launched off the USS Kitty Hawk after my first day of CQ in the T-2C and its one radio failed. I had to climb through kind of nasty weather to get on top and fly back to NAS North Island lost comm, Class B airspace. Not a huge deal but in my haste, I accidentally squawked 7700 vice 7600 :o.
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So I take it that was after the days when you squawked 7700 for 1 minute, and 7600 for 15 minutes....lather, rinse, repeat?

Don't you love single-UHF tactical jets? F-117 and T-38A/B were the same way.
 
Joe Gremlin said:
Professionals get paid to fly. Hard to do that when you're on the street without a job.
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I think you missed his point. There is a difference between a professional and someone flying for a living.

When people let their employers get away with things like making them fly unairworthy aircraft, they make it harder on the rest of us by lowering the bar of what is expected of us.

See Gulfstream

Example:

Yesterday we had an emergency coming in from JFK and couldn't use the airplane on the next leg to PNS. We have a spare aircraft in IAD but the APU was inop and it was 92 degrees. Dispatch and the chief pilot tired to pressure the captain into operating that aircraft as is, but he refused it. The CRJ-200 gets real hot real quick without the APU running on the ground, and it had been baking in the sun the whole day. 30 mins later we get a phone call that the APU was fixed and we could now operate the flight. If we would have accepted the aircraft just to "get the flight done" they would have let the aircraft operate with an inoperative APU until the MEL time limit came up or someone wouldn't take the airplane.

We had 10 kids on the flight and a few elderly people and even with the APU it was pretty warm inside.

A professional stands their ground when they are asked to do something they aren't comfortable, consequences be damned.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
I think you missed his point. There is a difference between a professional and someone flying for a living.

When people let their employers get away with things like making them fly unairworthy aircraft, they make it harder on the rest of us by lowering the bar of what is expected of us...

...A professional stands their ground when they are asked to do something they aren't comfortable, consequences be damned.
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thanks...that was my point exactly.

I had to give up a cool job flying a 401 in the Carribbean because the guy wouldn't maintain the airplane properly... I really liked that gig...too bad:insane:
 
Douglas said:
What kind of avionics set up do you have that defaults to transmitting on guard?


The Narcos in my 172 always default back. But only one of them defaults to 121.5, the other defaults to 121.9 or something like that. Annoying is an understatement. I've been telling my CP and employer that it'd be more cost efficient to put them in an aviation museum than to keep overhauling them.
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Bumblebee said:
If a professional is on the street because he is unwilling to fly equipment that is not airworthy, it is because there is someone else who is not a professional who is willing to do so.
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And there always will be someone else who is willing to do so. Pretending otherwise is to live with your head up your anus IMO. Look down your nose at the situation and cast blame where you will, but it won't change anything. Ever.
 
Joe Gremlin said:
And there always will be someone else who is willing to do so. Pretending otherwise is to live with your head up your anus IMO. Look down your nose at the situation and cast blame where you will, but it won't change anything. Ever.
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Of all people to accuse of casting blame, Bumblebee is probably the last person you should point the finger at. He's one of the more experienced, yet still humble, guys on the forum. If you really are trying to "work your way up the ladder" Bumblebee is one of the guys you need to stop and listen to, not give the finger.

Stating something that is true doesn't become "casting blame" just because you don't like it.

You are right, there always will be people willing to shell out a bunch of money to play airline pilot at Gulfstream/TAB/etc. Calling yourself a professional pilot and actually being one is something entirely different.

There will always be guys willing to fly crappy airplanes through weather they have no business being in. But that certainly doesn't make it right. There are good jobs out there at reputable companies that will respect you. You just have to put the work in to find them, get to know people in the right places, and have a good head on your shoulders. Just because you found a company looking to hire you, doesn't mean you should take the job to get into the industry. That's a good way to become part of the problem instead of the solution.
 
Joe Gremlin said:
Show me a pilot who has never flown un-airworthy aircraft and I'll show you a pilot who has never flown for a living.
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I'm right here, I am a professional pilot AND I fly for a living.
Joe Gremlin said:
If that's true (and I have my doubts) the you are clearly the exception, not the rule. Almost none of the planes I flew for pay would have made it through a ramp check.
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OK you flew for pay intentionally in aircraft that were not airworthy...so you are one of the guys willing to do that

Bumblebee said:
:hiya:
I haven't ever left the field with an un-airworthy aircraft...and I fly for a living.
If you are a professional pilot you DO NOT fly an un-airworthy aircraft...if you just fly for a living you may, I guess.
Click to expand...

Joe Gremlin said:
Lowing the bar? I was just trying to work my way up the ladder and keep a roof over my head. If that was lowering the bar, well then I guess we'll just have to blame the entire state of the industry on me and guys like me. :rolleyes:
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I think that any one who does this does bear part of the blame. IMO

Joe Gremlin said:
Professionals get paid to fly. Hard to do that when you're on the street without a job.
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no...commercial pilots get paid to fly, professionals do it correctly.

Joe Gremlin said:
And there always will be someone else who is willing to do so. Pretending otherwise is to live with your head up your anus IMO. Look down your nose at the situation and cast blame where you will, but it won't change anything. Ever.
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I'm not saying that there isn't some pilot out there willing to fly equipment that is not airworthy, I am saying that it isn't professional, that is the distinction.

You say derogatory things like I have my head up my gahooya, which even proves the point further. I am aware that there are people willing to intentionally break the rules, but a professional will not.

You say you flew airplanes that were not airworthy, and then you held yourself out to be a professional. By your own admission you have proven your intentional lack of professionalism.

I am not looking down my nose at you, I am saying, however, that you did in fact lower the bar for those of us (the vast majority) who are trying to do things the right way.
You can get mad, cast aspersions, try to deflect the truth and not take responsibility, that is fine, but the facts are the facts.

The other thing you can do is to learn from your mistakes (as I and all of us have) and try to raise your game. That is what I hope for.

Even more, I hope that a brand new pilot like the OP reads this and determines that he will not intentionally violate the FAR's for a paycheck and think it's OK.
 
I didn't say I am trying to work my way up the ladder, I said I was. I came to see the industry for what it is, realized that the grass is much greener in other career fields and got out. I loved flying and I still do. But flying for a living, and all the BS that goes along with it just wasn't for me. Still, while I was in the game, I made the best choices I could with the tools I had. If those choices alone mean I wasn't a real live professional in your book, well I guess I'll just have to stop saying I was a professional pilot because someone on the interwebs who never met me said so. :rolleyes:
 
Zero1Niner said:
I see Holbert-superpilot wants some too. :rolleyes:
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My first emergency was a full engine failure in a Six at 11,500. I did have some warning however. The engine burst into flames about a minute before it quit. I landed on a runway at a controlled airport. The fire was out in about 1 minute. The plane was totaled.

My claim to fame; Totaled an aircraft in flight, rode it to the ground with 4 pax's. All still breathing.
 
fholbert said:
My first emergency was a full engine failure in a Six at 11,500. I did have some warning however. The engine burst into flames about a minute before it quit. I landed on a runway at a controlled airport. The fire was out in about 1 minute. The plane was totaled.

My claim to fame; Totaled an aircraft in flight, rode it to the ground with 4 pax's. All still breathing.
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And that makes your "first emergency" any more spectacular than someone else's? I think not. Each experience to their own, if it got his blood pumping this first time, he's learned from the 'unnatural' experience and will do better next time.

You better read the CRW overrun transcript... "professional" pilots stammering during/after emergency.
 
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