Total Eclipse

[kiloalpha]

What's your problem with the Eclipse 500?

Besides all the other problems with the plane... my biggest 'gear grinder' is the fact that if one engine fails, you'll beat the ambulance to the scene of the crash every time.

Why have two engines if you can't climb on one? Pointless.

 

[Douglas]

Anybody else reading this thread title and adding "of the heart" involuntarily?

 

[jynxyjoe]

Wasn't there someone on the site that was invovled in the Eclipse certification process in some manner or other?

:beer:

 

[minitour]

Why have two turbofan engines if you can't climb on one? Pointless.

Fixed. Agreed.

-mini

 

[swisspilot]

There is a company in Europe that has 8 of them, after they got delivered they never flew, 2 of them were not even finished when they got them, unfortunately the CAA does not allow them to fly....

 

[madolfsson]

Besides all the other problems with the plane... my biggest 'gear grinder' is the fact that if one engine fails, you'll beat the ambulance to the scene of the crash every time.

Why have two engines if you can't climb on one? Pointless.

 

[deadstick]

So on a hot day AT THE FACTORY, this thing won't climb on 1. Ok.



I'd hate to be a production test pilot there or take delivery there.

 

[boondr]

Besides all the other problems with the plane... my biggest 'gear grinder' is the fact that if one engine fails, you'll beat the ambulance to the scene of the crash every time.

Why have two engines if you can't climb on one? Pointless.

Because you can't climb on one?

I know what you're getting at I just thought I would be a smartass.

 

[wjmiller3]

Because you can't climb on one?

I know what you're getting at I just thought I would be a smartass.

Win!!

 

[madolfsson]

When it is hot and high, it doesn't climb very well S/E. After all, it is a VLJ. Still beats an engine out in a Piper Meridian ($2.1m) at sea level.

Comparing the Eclipse to existing jet planes is a bad comparison. It is not in the same league, and as a sub 6000lbs/1800 thrust plane it can't be. Think of it as a super-sized Cirrus with twin turbines. Big step up from piston planes, a big step down from Part 25 Jets.

 

[TFaudree_ERAU]

When it is hot and high, it doesn't climb very well S/E. After all, it is a VLJ. Still beats an engine out in a Piper Meridian ($2.1m) at sea level.

Comparing the Eclipse to existing jet planes is a bad comparison. It is not in the same league, and as a sub 6000lbs/1800 thrust plane it can't be. Think of it as a super-sized Cirrus with twin turbines. Big step up from piston planes, a big step down from Part 25 Jets.

I don't think the S/E climb rate is the ONLY complaint about this poorly designed airplane. The YEARS of lies, broken promises, and failure to deliver a suitable product. The piss poor craftsmanship. The lack of systems and components that have come to be the norm in a high altitude jet aircraft; on board weather RADAR and known icing equipment.

The argument that "it's a much cheaper jet than (insert Part 25 competitor here) is a farce. The reason those aircraft cost so much more is because they put a whole lot more effort into the R&D phases, testing and certification instead of shoving a sub par product out of the hangar just to meet obligations to DayJet...which is a whole 'nother thread in itself.

You're from GNV. Any chance you have a vested interest in the project since that's where the service center is/was located?

 

[madolfsson]

You're from GNV. Any chance you have a vested interest in the project since that's where the service center is/was located?

Type-rated owner pilot. Vested yes, but not irrationally so. One reason I took a gamble on the plane is that we still have great MX options at GNV.

The YEARS of lies, broken promises, and failure to deliver a suitable product. The piss poor craftsmanship. The lack of systems and components that have come to be the norm in a high altitude jet aircraft; on board weather RADAR and known icing equipment.

The old company had very poor business ethics and management. The plane has not fallen out of the skies (yet?). My plane has on board radar and RNAV; we have not done the FIKI mod yet.

 

[clayfenderstrat]

I don't think the S/E climb rate is the ONLY complaint about this poorly designed airplane. The YEARS of lies, broken promises, and failure to deliver a suitable product. The piss poor craftsmanship. The lack of systems and components that have come to be the norm in a high altitude jet aircraft; on board weather RADAR and known icing equipment.

The argument that "it's a much cheaper jet than (insert Part 25 competitor here) is a farce. The reason those aircraft cost so much more is because they put a whole lot more effort into the R&D phases, testing and certification instead of shoving a sub par product out of the hangar just to meet obligations to DayJet...which is a whole 'nother thread in itself.

You're from GNV. Any chance you have a vested interest in the project since that's where the service center is/was located?

It is really hard to read your text....your avatar draws my eyes away........every time! I crack up every time I see it.....

 

[Maurus]

All I know is that is was funny to land back at my home airport after flying IFR all day to see the Eclipse Jet we have based here taxiing back because it couldn't fly in the same weather as a Cherokee 140. Right then, you know it is a bad airplane. Maybe not so much once the stuff is completely fixed, but having three different models already produced with different malfunctions doesn't help.

 

[Orange Anchor]

Ya hu. I don't know which is worse, admitting the airplane wasn't complete and selling it as it, or pretending like "they fixed it". Phil Trenary would be proud.

Not complete as in off spec or systems promised not installed? The MD-11 was so far off spec when McDoug that the infamous Robert Crandall at American began refusing delivery. Later at a press conference at the Paris airshow, the McDoug CEO admitted the airplane was WAY off spec but remedies were forthcoming. Extra fuel tanks had to be added along with other aero-mods to get it near to promised specs.

 

[TFaudree_ERAU]

Type-rated owner pilot. Vested yes, but not irrationally so. One reason I took a gamble on the plane is that we still have great MX options at GNV.

The old company had very poor business ethics and management. The plane has not fallen out of the skies (yet?). My plane has on board radar and RNAV; we have not done the FIKI mod yet.

Very well. I respect your optimism in the new management. It can't be any worse than the old bunch. I really do hope they get things sorted out. The airplane LOOKS like it could have some potential. It's just a shame it got off on such a sour note.

 

[jynxyjoe]

Not complete as in off spec or systems promised not installed? The MD-11 was so far off spec when McDoug that the infamous Robert Crandall at American began refusing delivery. Later at a press conference at the Paris airshow, the McDoug CEO admitted the airplane was WAY off spec but remedies were forthcoming. Extra fuel tanks had to be added along with other aero-mods to get it near to promised specs.

Quite frankly, when the new owners come in and say "the plane was sold 85% complete" thats bad it doesn't matter if it was off spec or systems not installed as promised. I'm glad they admitted the old plane wasn't a finished product but to put a few bandaids on some problems they could fix is just more marketing and salesmanship. Well, I guess that's all they were good at anyway
In the eclipse case....
-range was no where near advertised
-the fuel cap issue on the extra tanks they added on
-the reoccurring pitot tube problem that lost the IFR cert over and over again
-honestly I can't recall every issue that made them lose their IFR cert week after week, it's been that long and there are that many
-spray painting and avionics static... really what more do I have to say about that.
-not bothering with a production certificate, because they couldn't show conformity on assembly, and the feds let them do individual certs on each assembled aircraft.
-FSDO shopping
-whistle blowing from the engineering and test pilot core
-complete cert investigation by the feds which resulted in more changes

Wait. I'm ranting again, and it's time for me and my girl to hit the IHOP and then the park. You all think what you want, I'm not the one with anything to prove. Hugs and KC you keep on keeping on, when you get some time making a living in the cert industry maybe I'll spare more than a minute talking to you about this. If it's a consolation prize, you do make me sigh and shake my head with every post.

 

[jynxyjoe]

Very well. I respect your optimism in the new management. It can't be any worse than the old bunch. I really do hope they get things sorted out. The airplane LOOKS like it could have some potential. It's just a shame it got off on such a sour note.

Very true.

 

[Orange Anchor]

Quite frankly, when the new owners come in and say "the plane was sold 85% complete" thats bad it doesn't matter if it was off spec or systems not installed as promised.

I was just asking. The old axiom is NEVER fly the A model of anything and the second one is the D model begins to approach what was promised in the A model.

In the eclipse case....
-range was no where near advertised
-the fuel cap issue on the extra tanks they added on
-the reoccurring pitot tube problem that lost the IFR cert over and over again
-honestly I can't recall every issue that made them lose their IFR cert week after week, it's been that long and there are that many
-spray painting and avionics static... really what more do I have to say about that.
-not bothering with a production certificate, because they couldn't show conformity on assembly, and the feds let them do individual certs on each assembled aircraft.
-FSDO shopping
-whistle blowing from the engineering and test pilot core
-complete cert investigation by the feds which resulted in more changes

The above answered my question. Thank you.

You all think what you want, I'm not the one with anything to prove. Hugs and KC you keep on keeping on, when you get some time making a living in the cert industry maybe I'll spare more than a minute talking to you about this. If it's a consolation prize, you do make me sigh and shake my head with every post.

I know we all appreciate you descending from on high to dispense light and wisdom on the poor ignorant masses. We are truly humbled.

...shows over.. back to the caves.. back to the caves...

 

[Itchy]

Know why it has two engines?.........Because it NEEDS them!