LSAs Like them, hate them what's the deal?

T

The Gardener

Terrafirma Phobic
I'd like to hear from anybody who has experience flying any of the models that are available.

Are they reasonable for flight training? (not just sport, but regular pp training as well).

What kind of rates are they going for on the rental market? Are the owners happy with them or are the a mess in the mtc hanger?

Discuss!
 
The only LSA I have flown is the SkyArrow. From an instructor perspective I didn't like it because I didn't feel it gave enough access to things since it is tandem seating. The view from the back seat to the instruments in the front was also limited.

You also have to be a monkey to pre flight it, and I'm not that agile. :)
 
I like them! The idea of a loophole for pilots to get around medical issues bothers me to certain point, but other than that, I really like the idea of the LSA and light sport certificate!

I have flown the Legend Cub, StingSport, and Gobash 700. All of them are great airplanes and fun to fly
 
Still undecided. I don't think they have been on the market enough yet, and have enough hours as a fleet to see how long they will last, the type of pilots who fly them etc. I do know that there have been a few of them taking some close scrutiny lately though.

So far, the medical thing bugs me a little. I know the purpose is to encourae people to fly, but people who can't get medicals for a good reason can circumvent the issue by flying as a sport pilot.

Edit to add: I think their should be a better way of showing that your physically fit to fly other than having a valid drivers license. We had a guy come in one day with boatlaods of money and do an intro flight for a private pilot cert. He was on methadone for back issues, and decided to go sport pilot. I've never taken it myself, but I don't think I want someone piloting a Yugo, let alone a aircraft on that stuff.
 
mshunter said:
Still undecided. I don't think they have been on the market enough yet, and have enough hours as a fleet to see how long they will last, the type of pilots who fly them etc. I do know that there have been a few of them taking some close scrutiny lately though.
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really? which ones? the LSA's I have been around are all mechanically sound, well designed aircraft. I feel "safer" flying in any LSA over some of the old junk many flight schools rent out... not that that theyre unsafe, but mechanically the LSA are safe and have a record to prove it! (saying that, I fly airplanes with 20,000 plus hours on a daily basis ;) ) I think the rotax engine is great and those without a Rotax, all use typical certified engines (Cessna and legend Cub come to mind)
 
SIUav8er said:
really? which ones? the LSA's I have been around are all mechanically sound, well designed aircraft. I feel "safer" flying in any LSA over some of the old junk many flight schools rent out... not that that theyre unsafe, but mechanically the LSA are safe and have a record to prove it! (saying that, I fly airplanes with 20,000 plus hours on a daily basis ;) ) I think the rotax engine is great and those without a Rotax, all use typical certified engines (Cessna and legend Cub come to mind)
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I think is was just mainly this http://news.studentpilot.com/28425-...-grounded-after-string-of-in-flight-breakups/

I'd like to hear from anybody who has them online at a flight school for instructional purposes too.

Thanks! Great stuff so far.
 
SIUav8er said:
really? which ones?
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Codyjp said:
I think is was just mainly this http://news.studentpilot.com/28425-...-grounded-after-string-of-in-flight-breakups/

I'd like to hear from anybody who has them online at a flight school for instructional purposes too.

Thanks! Great stuff so far.
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Hey thanks Cody.:) I couldn't find that link. So far thats all I can think of structural wise. But will they go the 10k hours that some Spam Cans go taking flight training abuse? There just isn't enough data out there to see yet. Sure, some make it already, but only a few (percentage wise) have gotten into the thousands of hours still. I just wonder how well the composites will last under LSA construction/certification rules. I also still wonder about the pilot/medical certification rules.

Edit to add: That airplane gave LSA's a black eye IMO.
 
you know, the medical thing for LSA's is kinda the last thing on my mind. There are commercial pilots with valid medicals that probably have worse conditions than a lot of sport pilots with no medical flying around.
 
cmill said:
you know, the medical thing for LSA's is kinda the last thing on my mind. There are commercial pilots with valid medicals that probably have worse conditions than a lot of sport pilots with no medical flying around.
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I see your point and agree. But I still think that there are many more pilots that are flying around w/sport pilots licenses that shoulden't be flying at all.
 
We have a Jabiru 170 at a place I work. Overall it has been a fine airplane. Outside of a few issues, it has been rather reliable. If I recall, it has 500 hours since new. For me it is a bit cramped. Not by width or height, but legroom. However, I am 6'4", so it comes with the territory.
Rental price wise, you are looking at around $105/hr when all is said and done.
 
mshunter said:
I see your point and agree. But I still think that there are many more pilots that are flying around w/sport pilots licenses that shoulden't be flying at all.
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Personally, the ones that concern me are the hazardous-attitude-clearinghouse ones, regardless of what type of certificate they hold or which privileges they are using. I think the experienced pilots who decide to only exercise SP priviliges are being responsible about it. Contrast to the ones who have disqualifying meds/conditions but continue to fly the same missions as they did 30 years ago. These guys scare me more because it seems like they're flying something bigger ie Bonanza, further and in more wx. Much bigger damage footprint in a 3500lb/175kt aircraft than a 1320lb/110kt aircraft.
The new SP candidates seem like we can responsibly weed them out during the initial training process, but that also relies on CFIs to make a judgement call during training.

Regarding training in LSAs, only experience I have to date is in CTSW and CTLS, which area blast to fly. I have a private student right now, solo'ed him in 14.5hrs despite some breaks in training. They've been very reliable, with very few missed flights. Mainly engine sensor/connector issues, which seem better on the newer planes we've been using.
It's definitely a more sensitive airplane than the spam cans, but the main problem is for transitioning pilots who never learned about rudder usage before.
 
LSA are a blast to fly. Also usually less expensive to rent than a comparitively new regular aircraft. I personally have flown the Allegro 2000, the Remos G3, Sting sport and the Tecnam Bravo. All 4 are a blast and have certain advantages. My favourite of the 4 is the Remos. Lots of room in there and very responsive. The Allegro can be a bit challenging but fun. Offeres excellent views though. I would definitly recommend LSA's to anyone.

Also don't forget that older types such as Cubs and Aeronca Chiefs and some Champs, luscombs etc, can be considered LSA's and the LSA rule can apply to them.
 
Fun to buzz around in but not fun to instruct in..........they just aren't built with the same quality of your typical trainer, I expect to see some major issues with our's after a year of hard training in them.
 
I'm kinda surprised to see people voicing concerns about the medical. If your medical is denied or revoked, you can't fly as a SP. You CAN let a medical lapse and not re-up and still fly as SP. To me, that's not the same as doing an end-run around the medical process, especially when you consider how intensely restrictive the FAA is with regard to seemingly innocuous medical issues.

SatelliteBeachPilot said:
Fun to buzz around in but not fun to instruct in..........they just aren't built with the same quality of your typical trainer, I expect to see some major issues with our's after a year of hard training in them.
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I'm not trying to be a jerk or flippant, but how do you know this? Do things just break a lot more in the LSAs you've flown? I've never flown one but have considered it for fun.
 
jynxyjoe said:
If they are still making that Cub for LSA purposes I like it.
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They are, but they run around $120K. I've flown a CTSW and a Remos G3. Both fly very similar to each other, and I found both easy to fly. I really like the LSA game, as it gives people the ability to fly a brand new airplane for right around $100/hr. In a few years, the prices of used planes will start going down, which should hopefully open up ownership opportunity to new people.
 
I instruct in a Evektor Sportstar and I really enjoy it! Very fun to fly after 300+ hours of instruction in it. We rent it out at less than $100/hr wet and it is glass panel, has autopilot, GPS, etc...

And I dont mind the part about not needing a medical, I havent flown with anyone I havent felt comfortable soloing. Gives people with less than perfect health the opportunity to pursue their passion for aviation.
 
My beef with the LSA's is the high cost of ownership and the lack of creativity on the part of (commercial) builders.

Where's my LSA motorglider-wanna-be with a diesel engine that sips 2gph for $50/hour rental?

Instead of that fantasy, all I get is more 100LL at 4-6 gph and $100+/hour to rent. I might as well as fly an old POS cessna 150 for that (and at $90/hour). I dont care if it's new or old. I just want something to fly that doesn't cost an arm and a leg to rent.
 
cefiro said:
I instruct in a Evektor Sportstar and I really enjoy it! Very fun to fly after 300+ hours of instruction in it. We rent it out at less than $100/hr wet and it is glass panel, has autopilot, GPS, etc...

And I dont mind the part about not needing a medical, I havent flown with anyone I havent felt comfortable soloing. Gives people with less than perfect health the opportunity to pursue their passion for aviation.
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That's a pretty sweet-looking little airplane.

Question: the Sport Pilot certificate doesn't allow you to fly at night, correct? However, a certificated PPL CAN fly those airplanes at night, correct?
 
killbilly said:
That's a pretty sweet-looking little airplane.

Question: the Sport Pilot certificate doesn't allow you to fly at night, correct? However, a certificated PPL CAN fly those airplanes at night, correct?
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Correct....Limitations on a sport pilot certificate include, but are not limited to: No night flight, cannot go above 10,000ft MSL, and must maintain ground contact at all times.

Assuming the airplane is properly equipped for night flight (such as the sportstar) then someone with a PPL can fly it at night. Heck, there is a Sportstar Max which is IFR equipped: http://www.evektor-aircraft.com/sportstar-max
 
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