ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
I meant the FIRST time I worked for Chautauqua. When I was way senior to Martin. 
American Eagle: A Career Airline
- Thread starter Firebird2XC
- Start date
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
I meant the FIRST time I worked for Chautauqua. When I was way senior to Martin.
Both times you were senior.
Just for the record.
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
At a major airline 100% of your revenue comes from 1 airline, and majors can go bankrupt any day too. So would you rather be a very senior SKYW Captain or a junior UA FO?
Maybe United is bad example since many people would rather be anything than a junior UA FO.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I would rather be the junior UAL FO. UAL isn't going anywhere.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Are you kidding? They've 1,000 guys on the street! I heard that goes back to 1997 hires!
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Not kidding. UAL is a true career. SkyWest is an at-will job that could disappear at any time. My opinion might be different if I thought they had any chance of getting a union on property in the near future, but right now I just see a company that is listening to CVRs and keeping two wholly-owned airlines separate for no purpose other than whipsaw.
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
Sure, because getting a union on the property (most likely increasing their costs) will improve the stability of their contracts with their major airline partners... right? Apples and oranges.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
There are two kinds of job security:
1. Company job security, which is what you're referring to, and
2. Personal job security, which is what I was referring to. Your company may be in fine financial shape, but without a contract, you have no true job security, because you're nothing more than at at-will employee that can be terminated on a whim.
But what good is that security when your company tanks and you're one of 1000 on the street....?
Or in a different industry for example....The teachers in our district are facing budget cuts and there are some tenured teachers, with a union contract (Personal Job Security), who may get laid off. That union contract will be worth nothing and there will be No Job Security.:dunno:
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
This I am intimately familiar with of late. I concede the point.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Agreed. That's why you need both forms of job security. But like I said, I don't believe there's a snowball's chance in hell that UAL is going to go out of business. Just ain't gonna happen. So, with UAL, you may get furloughed for a few years, but you've got a long career ahead of you. With SkyWest, you may or may not, depending on how much your mormon overlords like you and how willing you are to kiss their asses, and you'll make far less money over the long term, anyway. Yep, I would definitely stick with the first option.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Did I miss something? You aren't out of work, are you?
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
The company might not, but the junior FOs might be. Technically, I don't think AA is going anywhere, but you've got a lot of junior FOs that haven't seen a paycheck from there in over a decade. What good is being employed somewhere if you're not drawing a paycheck or getting the benefits. At the end of the day, who's gonna be able to pay the mortgage? The junior UAL FO that's furloughed or the senior Skywest CA whose job can disappear at any moment? I can point to more than a few 9E guys that went to UAL and wished they'd stayed here, scary as that is.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Most of the 9E guys that I know who went to UAL are still quite happy with their choice, despite having to work non-aviation jobs now while they wait for the recall.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
A recall that may last, as Steve has mentioned, a decade.
I would never return to an airline after a decade, and with that, let me tell you guys a little story I heard on one of my last commutes back from Utah.
I was chatting up a pair of SLC 757 guys while riding their jumpseat, and the captain told me about a guy he know that got furloughed. He was furloughed for so long, he ended up having almost a full career at the FBI. Well eventually this airline calls him back and says, "Hey, you wanna come back? Furlough's over!" The guy was only a few years from retirement at the FBI, what with how young he was when he got furloughed, but decided, "Hey, the airline won't go anywhere!"
He was recalled to Pan Am for about 4 years before it went bust, and the FBI wouldn't take him back. He was hosed.
The Delta captain told me, "Kid, walk away from this furlough as if you'll never get another flying job ever again. You may, or you may not, but take this as a chance to reinvent yourself and be careful about making that decision to take recall if you DO manage to reinvent yourself."
It's probably been the most impactful thing said to me about being furloughed.
I would never return to an airline after a decade, and with that, let me tell you guys a little story I heard on one of my last commutes back from Utah.
I was chatting up a pair of SLC 757 guys while riding their jumpseat, and the captain told me about a guy he know that got furloughed. He was furloughed for so long, he ended up having almost a full career at the FBI. Well eventually this airline calls him back and says, "Hey, you wanna come back? Furlough's over!" The guy was only a few years from retirement at the FBI, what with how young he was when he got furloughed, but decided, "Hey, the airline won't go anywhere!"
He was recalled to Pan Am for about 4 years before it went bust, and the FBI wouldn't take him back. He was hosed.
The Delta captain told me, "Kid, walk away from this furlough as if you'll never get another flying job ever again. You may, or you may not, but take this as a chance to reinvent yourself and be careful about making that decision to take recall if you DO manage to reinvent yourself."
It's probably been the most impactful thing said to me about being furloughed.
A long way back, I was jumpseating on a UAL flight. Standing in the jetway waiting to board, I got to talking with the other jumpseater. He flew for Airborne Express. One of the FA's comes out and we all start talking. Turns out the ABX guy's wife is a UAL pilot. FA asks, "why don't you apply to us? (delivered BTW, in very snooty "We are the end-all, be-all of airlines" attitude). The guy responds essentially with "We don't want all our eggs in one basket" FA very smugly announces "Nothing will ever happen to us"
A dozen years later, I wonder what she would say?
About 4 years after that I get to talking with an AWAC new hire. Before AWAC she worked as an accountant for...United. She told me something very interesting. The way United is set up and operating (at the time), all it would take would be one or two big things, and UAL would be in serious trouble. Not long after that...9/11.
It's been almost a decade and United still hasn't recovered. I can't remember the last time United posted an annual profit. To say that United "isn't going anywhere" ignores the realities of this industry and United's position in it, and is quite frankly, optimistic to the point of foolishness.
But then again, it comes from somebody who says you need a union contract to have job security. As if all the people furloughed in the last decade didn't work for air carriers who had a "no furlough" clause in their contracts.
I've said it before. The only way to have REAL job security is to ensure that your employer always has work that needs to be done.
PanAm wasn't going anywhere... TWA wasn't going anywhere...
Nothing is certain. The company you work for can go away. Make the best decisions you can, with the information you have available to you at the time, and just keep moving forward best you can. But know that there is no absolute "safe" company to work for. Period.
Nothing is certain. The company you work for can go away. Make the best decisions you can, with the information you have available to you at the time, and just keep moving forward best you can. But know that there is no absolute "safe" company to work for. Period.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
My opinion is based upon briefings that I receive quarterly from ALPA's Economics & Financial Analysis Department, which is a team of experts that do nothing but study airline financials. Their track record is stellar, so I feel pretty confident in my prediction. Unless another 9/11 comes along, UAL will be just fine. Will they be growing and prospering like the heady days of 1999? No, but they won't be going away, either.
WacoFan
Bigly
Exactly. Hate to hear absolutes about a company. There isn't an airline flying today that can match what Pan Am or TWA were in their haydays - and they both are memories. Any company, across any industry, will disappoint you or at least has the capacity to do so.