Beech Sierra (C24R)

[Maurus]

Just curious if this is considered a high performance airplane. It has an IO360 that is rated at 200HP, but int he performance charts there is a note that at 2700 RPM and full throttle, the aircraft will produce +5% increased rated HP which would put it at 210 HP

I would say that would qualify as high performance, but just seeing what other people think.

 

[tgrayson]

I would say that would qualify as high performance, but just seeing what other people think.

The old FAQs said if the aircraft were capable of generating more than 200 HP, it was high performance: "If someplace in the airplane's flight manual if the engine specifications says “more than 200 horsepower” it qualifies as a high performance airplane"

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

I'd be inclined to use what the type certificate says. Nothing within the type certificate for the airplane says anything about being able to develop more than 200 hp, as far as I could tell.

 

[Joe Gremlin]

Just curious if this is considered a high performance airplane. It has an IO360 that is rated at 200HP, but int he performance charts there is a note that at 2700 RPM and full throttle, the aircraft will produce +5% increased rated HP which would put it at 210 HP

I would say that would qualify as high performance, but just seeing what other people think.

Are there any conditions listing in the performance charts which would produce more than 200hp?

 

[Maurus]

It never gives a direct HP rating in the performance charts. It just has the note in the 2700 RPM, full throttle cruise chart that the aircraft will produce +5% rated HP. So if we are at sea level on a standard day, that would mean 210HP. Ther are no direct conditions listed other than the aircraft be at full throttle and 2700 RPM.

I only asked this since I am looking at getting my high performance endorsement and I know a CFI with a C24R that will give it to me for the cost of fuel.

 

[Mike H]

my advice would be to do the High Performance endorsement in something that there's no argument about it beng over 200hp. Maybe you can find a Cessna 180 and do both the HP and tailwheel endorsments at the same time

 

[Maurus]

That isn't as easy as it sounds here in NE Ohio although I would love to fly a C-180.

 

[Cessnaflyer]

Except as provided in paragraph (f)(2) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a high-performance airplane (an airplane with an engine of more than 200 horsepower

Seems pretty easy to me. 200HP plus 5% more in certain situations would be more then 200HP classifying the Sierra as a high performance aircraft. I don't know where the confusion could be :dunno:

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

Seems pretty easy to me. 200HP plus 5% more in certain situations would be more then 200HP classifying the Sierra as a high performance aircraft. I don't know where the confusion could be :dunno:

The fact that the type certificate lists the airplane as 200 hp. Not more than 200 hp, but only 200. I wouldn't risk trying to get the endorsement in a plane that nobody does this training in, just to try to get it. Do a quick google for this topic, and you'll find nothing on it, which leads me to believe that no Sierra, as produced from the factory, is capable of producing more than 200 hp.

Here's the type certificate, if you care to read through it. http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/d6d7f399f6281d2886257385006956a0/$FILE/A1CE.pdf

 

[Joe Gremlin]

So if we are at sea level on a standard day, that would mean 210HP. Ther are no direct conditions listed other than the aircraft be at full throttle and 2700 RPM.

I guess what I'm asking is whether full throttle and 2700 is specified in the performance data for any condition of flight. IOW, I've flown turboprops that were rated at 675hp. The engines were certainly capable of producing more HP than that, but if you did, you would exceed the operating limitations for the airframe.

The Sierra is rated as a 200hp airplane. The POH is telling you that the engine will produce more HP than that. But is it also telling you that the airframe is designed (and approved) to handle more than 200hp? If you cannot find a clear yes answer in the documentation, then I would get the endorsement in something else. The last thing you want to do is have to defend the validity of your HP endorsement years down the road by having to produce documentation that proves the plane had more than 200hp. Doing the endorsement in something commonly accepted to be greater than 200hp (like a 182) would avoid that problem. Sounds like cheap insurance to me even though it might cost more up front.

 

[XLR99]

Any chance you could work something out with that 182 that Vaughn's been flying?

 

[mshunter]

Follow what the type cert says. If the FAA (who issued the type cert) was satisfied that it was high performance, i.e. over 200, the type certificate would reflect that.

 

[Maurus]

Any chance you could work something out with that 182 that Vaughn's been flying?

Nope, the owner only lets him fly it and wont put a couple random guys on insurance for a flight.


As far as finding a true high performance airplane, if I could I would have already had the endorsement. The only two close places with a high performance aircraft is scarepark and that other school that happens to have a turbo seneca. For those that don't know, those two places are not highly regarded in the local flying community.

 

[Cessnaflyer]

The fact that the type certificate lists the airplane as 200 hp. Not more than 200 hp, but only 200. I wouldn't risk trying to get the endorsement in a plane that nobody does this training in, just to try to get it. Do a quick google for this topic, and you'll find nothing on it, which leads me to believe that no Sierra, as produced from the factory, is capable of producing more than 200 hp.

Here's the type certificate, if you care to read through it. http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...d7f399f6281d2886257385006956a0/$FILE/A1CE.pdf

So why does it say it can produce 5% more horsepower and doesn't give limitations on it? To me that makes it a more then 200HP aircraft or there is a loop hole they are working around.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

So why does it say it can produce 5% more horsepower and doesn't give limitations on it? To me that makes it a more then 200HP aircraft or there is a loop hole they are working around.

I couldn't tell you. I'd like to see the exact wording in the POH, and in what context it's used. Without seeing a POH with the wording, I can't give you an accurate answer.

 

[Joe Gremlin]

Call the FSDO and ask them if a Sierra is a high performance aircraft. They'll so no. Then read them the note you found in the POH and ask them if that changes anything. If they say it does indeed make the plane high performance, then ask them to put in writing. If you get it writing then you're good but short of that, find another plane.