TUCKnTRUCK
That guy
we are from the start.. faa wanted leg by leg... It should be leg by leg though.
reality check q400 ewr
- Thread starter row9
- Start date
we are from the start.. faa wanted leg by leg... It should be leg by leg though.
USMC-SSGT
Well-Known Member
That was great while it lasted. For one month my day 4 was a non commutable five leg day ending with a DCA turn blocked for a total of 7:52. Every single week by the time we made it to EWR before the DCA turn we were over block and projected at a minute under or over the 8:00. We simply called scheduling and told them we would not fly the flight and were pulled. 4 Weeks in a row I went from non commutable to getting home at 6 and pay protected for the turns.
I think that legal to start legal to finish is one of the larger jokes in the industry. It is ONLY safe to block 8 hours in a day but if you are blocked at 7:59 on a day full of convective activity and fly for 9:40 it is perfectly fine.
As for the suspensions...Colgan never fired anyone for anything for a long time so 3407 was finally cleansing time. Over half the pilots we fired should have been gone years ago.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Now you are. But for a while there, as was pointed out, it was leg by leg. Probably because the FAA was watching. Never changed at 9E. Nice how the same corporate structure has two different legal interpretations of the same rule for their subsidiaries depending on how it affects the operation of the airline....
RPM
Well-Known Member
Seriously?
I think it is a big deal. Doesn't ever happen if you pay attention.. Ive flown in some pretty nasty gusty conditions, Windshear etc.. and never even been close to a shaker in thousands of hours on the Prop or the jet.. PLI yes, Shaker Never. Even in the sim you basically have to try to get into the shaker..
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Seriously?
I think it is a big deal. Doesn't ever happen if you pay attention.. Ive flown in some pretty nasty gusty conditions, Windshear etc.. and never even been close to a shaker in thousands of hours on the Prop or the jet.. PLI yes, Shaker Never. Even in the sim you basically have to try to get into the shaker..
Are we talking Q400, CRJ, ERJ, Saab? Pretty sure all have different parameters. For example, we don't have a switch in the CRJ for "ice" like the Q does. I've gotten the shaker a few times in the CRJ.
NJA_Capt
Well-Known Member
Not a big deal?!?!?! The only time you should be even close ( and in a climb) is in a WS recovery. I can see an ASAP report and an eval of the climb profile.
Ditto
Ditto
That is very scary!
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Sorry guys I just opened this thread, and I wanted to say I thought it was hilarious. I knew from the PM's with Cruise and the L-16B there was no way it was just 5% because their own examples went well past 7 people. But I didn't have exact numbers so I didn't want to push it seeing as how I had second hand info. Also I was wondering if they meant that of the people left at the company (not included fired personel) it was only 5%, which is unfair way to look at it in my opinion, but I didn't care that much.
Anyway, glad to see everyday line pilots at Colgan I've spoken very well informed at their own company problems.
Thanks a lot row9.
TUCKnTRUCK
That guy
When th ANVS beaters break, it feels like the whole plane is on a stick shaker... 
we have had air returns for it it's so violent.
we have had air returns for it it's so violent.
Cruise
Well-Known Member
Great........want a lollipop?
I do believe the original question I had was regarding your statement here:
http://forums.jetcareers.com/1399448-post4.html
You claimed "more than half the crews".....were investigated/ violated. This simply is not the case. Yet, here you are touting your new found information around as though you're some major investigative journalist who cracked some case.
Yes, there were a bunch of people who had issues. We've covered that in PM's.....but you seem to feel the need to affirm your position here in public, so so be it. Additionally, several others have confirmed it here. However, you were not correct originally...and still aren't. Despite Row9's need to post dirty laundry on a public forum (which is in poor taste); the statistics still don't match up to 'a majority.' So it's more than 5%....wow, big deal!
The EWR operation has been under a microscope since we began operating the Q (esp. since the accident....of course). Both the Feds and management were trying to prove they had the operation under control and pilots were being, for lack of a better term, harassed. Almost everyone I know was flying scared....this does not produce a good result. It's not easy showing up to work when you know both your management and the Feds are openly looking to take away your career and make an example out of you for even the most minor infractions. Mistakes happen, we're all susceptible to making them. Of course, we do as much as possible to prevent it; but, if you're thinking it can't happen to you (a rhetorical you....not YOU, Jynxy) you're fooling yourself. I've been fortunate enough to keep my record clean; but, I know some very good pilots who are less fortunate. It can happen to ANYONE.
So please, let this thread go the way of the blue juice. It really isn't proving anything.....except to further the 'my regional is better than yours' argument. This thread stinks, is classless, and only proves to further erode any camaraderie that remains amongst pilots.
My $.02.....YMMV
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
How so? Has a tendency to do that 5 ft above the ground when you get a wind gust that flips the AOA vanes to the point they don't agree with each other. I don't know jack about the systems on your plane, so I don't call you "scary." The few other times I got the shaker, I was about 30 knots ABOVE Vref on an approach. I went around. This airplane has a history of "stall fail" caution messages because of it's poorly designed AOA vanes and stall detection system, too. Once again, I can't speak on the ERJ, Q400 or your plane, but I know mine pretty well.
Perhaps you might want some facts before you just jump to conclusions next time.
Cruise
Well-Known Member
Didn't you get the memo??? ALL regional pilots are a hazard to themselves and everyone around them!
Birds included.
Cruise
Well-Known Member
Qgar
New Member
A friend in the industry sent this to me. I'm not sure how to do the link, but you can hear the entire interview on this NPR station up in BUF.
Sorry....
WBFO News
WBFO News
Sign in honor of those killed on Flight 3407 near the corner of Long Street WBFO News photo by Eileen Buckley
BUFFALO, NY (WBFO) - This week WBFO News is featuring stories focusing on the one year anniversary of the crash of Flight 3407 in Clarence. WBFO'S Eileen Buckley talked with a former Colgan Air employee who says pilot training was "very lax".
Click the audio player above to hear Eileen Buckley's full story now or use your podcasting software to download it to your computer or iPod.
Gina Ryder is from Manassas,Virginia. She worked at Colgan Air from August of 2005 until June of last year. Ryder was a crew scheduler and training to be a pilot. But the crash of Flight 3407 left her so upset that she quit her job at Colgan and moved WNY to live in Clarence. She's currently working at an area bank. Ryder lost two of her friends in the crash, pilot Marvin Renslow and flight attendant Matilda Quintero. Ryder agreed to meet me at a Tim Horton's in Clarence.
Ryder tells WBFO News she is also training to be a volunteer firefighter. Colgan Air declined to respond to Ryder's statements for now. Spokesman Joe Williams says they want to hold off on making any comments untit the PBS program "Frontline" aired its story on cheap airlines that examined the crash of Flight 3407. That program aired Tuesday evening. © Copyright 2010, WBFO
</DIV>
Sorry....
WBFO News
WBFO News
Sign in honor of those killed on Flight 3407 near the corner of Long Street WBFO News photo by Eileen Buckley
BUFFALO, NY (WBFO) - This week WBFO News is featuring stories focusing on the one year anniversary of the crash of Flight 3407 in Clarence. WBFO'S Eileen Buckley talked with a former Colgan Air employee who says pilot training was "very lax".
Click the audio player above to hear Eileen Buckley's full story now or use your podcasting software to download it to your computer or iPod.
Gina Ryder is from Manassas,Virginia. She worked at Colgan Air from August of 2005 until June of last year. Ryder was a crew scheduler and training to be a pilot. But the crash of Flight 3407 left her so upset that she quit her job at Colgan and moved WNY to live in Clarence. She's currently working at an area bank. Ryder lost two of her friends in the crash, pilot Marvin Renslow and flight attendant Matilda Quintero. Ryder agreed to meet me at a Tim Horton's in Clarence.
Ryder tells WBFO News she is also training to be a volunteer firefighter. Colgan Air declined to respond to Ryder's statements for now. Spokesman Joe Williams says they want to hold off on making any comments untit the PBS program "Frontline" aired its story on cheap airlines that examined the crash of Flight 3407. That program aired Tuesday evening. © Copyright 2010, WBFO
</DIV>
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Great........want a lollipop?
I do believe the original question I had was regarding your statement here:
http://forums.jetcareers.com/1399448-post4.html
You claimed "more than half the crews".....were investigated/ violated. This simply is not the case. Yet, here you are touting your new found information around as though you're some major investigative journalist who cracked some case.
Yes, there were a bunch of people who had issues. We've covered that in PM's.....but you seem to feel the need to affirm your position here in public, so so be it. Additionally, several others have confirmed it here. However, you were not correct originally...and still aren't. Despite Row9's need to post dirty laundry on a public forum (which is in poor taste); the statistics still don't match up to 'a majority.' So it's more than 5%....wow, big deal!
The EWR operation has been under a microscope since we began operating the Q (esp. since the accident....of course). Both the Feds and management were trying to prove they had the operation under control and pilots were being, for lack of a better term, harassed. Almost everyone I know was flying scared....this does not produce a good result. It's not easy showing up to work when you know both your management and the Feds are openly looking to take away your career and make an example out of you for even the most minor infractions. Mistakes happen, we're all susceptible to making them. Of course, we do as much as possible to prevent it; but, if you're thinking it can't happen to you (a rhetorical you....not YOU, Jynxy) you're fooling yourself. I've been fortunate enough to keep my record clean; but, I know some very good pilots who are less fortunate. It can happen to ANYONE.
So please, let this thread go the way of the blue juice. It really isn't proving anything.....except to further the 'my regional is better than yours' argument. This thread stinks, is classless, and only proves to further erode any camaraderie that remains amongst pilots.
My $.02.....YMMV
Fine, roll your eyes, twice even. For what it is worth I highlighted the above as stuff I agree with. You keep saying my original premise (as counted by your Colgan pilots, not by me) was wrong and that subsequently, your pilots are wrong. I wonder how far off we are when one guy can count close to 50 people off the top of his head. To be clear, I don't work for Colgan I just hear things from current employees, my old co-workers. My informations second hand AT BEST. I am in no way a real source of information, but it sounds like row9 is.
One guy in his reality check got his count up to 49. Lot more than 7 people isn't it? It's obvious you all are still in triage mode, and it's obvious I'm just beating on a beaten dog. Maybe someday you all will be out of triage mode, but it's a reality for now, that when it comes to matters regarding Colgan, you are gonna put whatever spin you can on it to save face. While I agree completely I'm "touting" this information publicly, I'm doing it more as a "WTF Cruise," not a "reporter". I'm pretty sure your response to all this is, "ya know what Joe? This is none of your business, I'm tired of everyone from the FAA and Management picking on us, I don't need other pilots or ex pilots doing it too". Thats fine, I for one think this oughta be flushed too. I don't like getting picked on either.
/rant start
I really don't get it with you guys, and your posturing about "my regional is the same as yours"(rhetorical you, not you cruise). I can't speak for every pilot in the industry, but the only time I've ever had someone discount a couple extra thousand a year is some wealthy trust fund baby. I had a partial scholarship through school and I just recently paid off my school loans. I'm debt free except for the house and have an emergency fund complete and a car fund started. Why? I left your regional and went to one that pays better on the same equipment. Those of you that don't give a crap about another couple thousand dollars in your pockets FINE, the rest of us DO. You may notice, aside from Eagle, the rest of us are shedding jobs while Colgan started hiring. The extra couple grand a year, however insignificant to you (not Cruise, the rhetorical you), pays our bills and puts food on the table. Wanna know how to bring some professionalism and fellowship BACK to this industry? It isn't by ignoring the obvious problems a company has and publicly refuting the worst kept secrets in regional airlines. GET RID OF THE RICH BRATS WHO WORK IT! Make it a law. It's the blue collar that built the middle class, not third generational wealth looking for a shortcut. My regional is better than yours, I stand by that. ASA is better than mine and so is Eagle. Hell, Compass and GoJets pays their FO's more for the same # seats.
Now please, someone with a knee-jerk reaction like "Yeah but you are underpaid just like me" to make this rant complete. Please, give me some genuine Glen Beck patented tears too. That crap kills me. We should all go make $18000 a year at Colgan. Sign me up, that makes me a comrade right? I'm not going to fall in line with that thinking. Pilots should not goto Colgan and further the spiral, if you don't agree thats fine, I've noticed the loud protests against this argument for a while now.
/rant end
Also, if the company and the FAA wanted to sit in my lap on every flight I'm damn sure they'd find something to be pissed at me for. A method I've seen on the line to get rid of the patented Bombardier "Crazy Ivan" would probably make some inspectors head spin. You guys got rode like ponies, and Colgan and Pinnacle set you all up for failure. I got very lucky because I was able to leave and make more money, improve my QOL, and get away from the high COL in the Northeast. I would feel sorry for ya all, it obviously you all are happy with it and this is the new standard for regional aviation excellence. So carry on.
wick81
Well-Known Member
Colgan isn't hiring just because it has low pilot pay. It just has the right plane at the right time. Just like 50 seat jet operators aren't furloughing just because of high pay. There is more that goes into the business than just pilot pay.
I also was able to pay of loans etc...because I stayed at Colgan, got the opportunity to upgrade and be based at home. I am by no means a rich brat, and that extra thousand at another regional would have been wasted away on a crashpad and commuting. I think using these kind of arguments are kind of pointless, because everyone's living situation is different.
I also was able to pay of loans etc...because I stayed at Colgan, got the opportunity to upgrade and be based at home. I am by no means a rich brat, and that extra thousand at another regional would have been wasted away on a crashpad and commuting. I think using these kind of arguments are kind of pointless, because everyone's living situation is different.
NJA_Capt
Well-Known Member
Lighten up Francis. What's to know. If a plane has such a long history that it is "common," the plane needs to be fixed. If the pilots cause it enough to be common, the training needs to be fixed.
After years on this board (and others) and several pilots shrugging off getting the shaker at altitude, I stand by my statement. For the record, I wasn't the only one who said it was scary.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Nah, but you do have a history of bagging on regional pilots. I agree that getting the shaker at altitude is an issue. The only times I've gotten that, it's grabbed my attention, and it was NOT because I let the airplane get too slow. There are a LOT of things on the -200 that need to be fixed. I've given up hope on that happening. There are a LOT of training issues at this airline that need to be fixed. It's a work in progress, the same as it is at any other operation.
I wasn't "shrugging off" getting a shaker at altitude, and I'd agree guys that shrug off shakers and pushers should probably be taken out behind a woodshed and "talked to." I also stand by my statement, don't jump to conclusions.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
-900 needs the ECS fixed, like now. We lost an FO this month to frostbite.
EDIT: Not like, lost lost. She had to quit.