Am I wrong to be worried?

Murdoughnut

Murdoughnut

Well sized member
So a few months back we had a new member join our flying club/ownership group. As a reminder, we have a 1981 172 that several of us share. The new member came in as a student pilot and finished up with one of our instructors.

Since getting his PPL, the new pilot has made numerous long cross country trips. About twice a month he goes up to the Carolinas. This week he has a tripped plan leaving on Tuesday and coming back on Friday - from St. Pete to Kansas City and back.

On at least two occasions he's taken the plane on long cross countries after another member gave it up due to sketchy weather. I've flown the plane immediately after him before and noticed dirt due to rain on the aircraft. Now I know it's not illegal to fly in rain during VMC, but I wouldn't when I was a new PPL.

So other than the annoyance of having a member who has boosted our monthly flying average from 13-hours to 30, should I be concerned that a wet ink PPL is taking such long trips? I just remember being a new PPL and balking at any sign of precipitation. I can't imagine making a four day round trip to Kansas City and back from Florida in January without an instrument rating. I've never met the guy - he's good friends with one of the club officers and a business owner (most of his trips are business related).

So am I right to be a little concerned about this guy's trips? Or is it that I simply was overly cautious when I was a new pilot? Just curious what others' perspectives were.
 
It's not a question of "under" or "over" confident. Different people have different confidence levels at different experience points, and it's not like one is "right" or "wrong". I'd let it sit...obviously he made it. If you're not comfortable with that, though, just talk to him about his trips. Maybe something like "Can you give me some insights on how I could make longer trips under VFR?...."
 
Murdoughnut said:
So am I right to be a little concerned about this guy's trips? Or is it that I simply was overly cautious when I was a new pilot? Just curious what others' perspectives were.
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Doesn't sound like anything dangerous to me. Ambitious maybe, but that's a good thing. Airplanes work fine in the rain ;)

I don't see how long trips are any more dangerous than short ones.
 
The week before Christmas I flew from KSPG to KOJC in a 206 and that trip was long and boring as could be. I couldn't imagine doing it in 172, yuck.

As long as he is staying within the parameters of his certificate and the rules of the flying club, then what is the big deal?

Now, if you suspect he is pushing the limits, have you asked him about it? Maybe if he realizes someone is watching he'll be a little more aware of the undertaking he's attempting.
 
If he's taking such long trips (one of which being Saint Petersburg-KC), the ink on his certificate probably isn't that wet anymore. I mean, that's quite of bit of hours built. :)

On this topic, I just got back from my first long trip since I got my license. I went with my girlfriend from LGB to the Grand Canyon in a 152. :cool:
 
Jshutt64 said:
If he's taking such long trips (one of which being Saint Petersburg-KC), the ink on his certificate probably isn't that wet anymore.
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I originally got my PPL with the intention of taking long weekend trips. And I did quite a few.

It isn't that hard to stay VMC, or wait on the ground until it is VMC.
 
Right after getting my PPL at about 60 hours, I took one of the most memorable trips of a lifetime. Palm Springs, to the Grand Canyon, to Durango, Colorado and back. It was a great experience!
 
From a practical standpoint, the airplane is insured and probably fully insured. As long as you are confident that he is not doing aerobatics and overstressing the airplane, I'm not sure your worry is "valid". If he crashes and dies, you are insured and it isn't like a C172 is as rare a commodity to replace as a Staggerwing or a Waco. If the guy is legal, and if the hourly rental is adequate to support the increased flying then all should be good. If he is hogging the airplane to the point of you not being able to fly it, then that would suck too.
 
Really, what is the point of paying money to get a license and pay to be in a club if you aren't going to fly anywhere? It is better for the plane in the long run to be flying regular xc flights rather than 10 hours of touch and goes a month. Not really sure what the complaint is.
 
I wouldn't be worried. But I would be annoyed if I didn't get the same access to the airplane that I had before.

I used to be in a similair club; ten of us had a share in the airplane. We stated in the by-rules that any trip longer then 5 days (may have been 7) had to be approved by the other members, just in case some else needed the airplane. It was never an issue though.
 
I guess most disagree with me - my concern up to this point has mostly been from scheduling. I had a trip planned a few months back that I nearly missed because he got stuck in weather that was clearly forecasted well in advance. He finally made it back the morning I was scheduled to leave - three days after he was supposed to. More recently my concern has been for the aircraft and the pilot.

Obviously I'm imposing my opinions, though - and it's clear I'm in the minority. I would compare it to getting your IFR ticket. Sure it's legal to go out the next day with 0.0 actual and fly hard night IFR down to ILS minimums - but I wouldn't do it. It just seemed to me that flying a 2,000 mile roundtrip to the midwest and back during winter, without an instrument rating, just seemed like a big step without more experience. But perhaps I'm wrong.

This isn't a guy I ever talk to, so I don't know what his attitude is or anything else. Like I said, just wanted to see what others thought.
 
mxflyer said:
I wouldn't be worried. But I would be annoyed if I didn't get the same access to the airplane that I had before.

I used to be in a similair club; ten of us had a share in the airplane. We stated in the by-rules that any trip longer then 5 days (may have been 7) had to be approved by the other members, just in case some else needed the airplane. It was never an issue though.
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You're right - and I've expressed my concerns about a couple of things. Mainly that he's checking the plane out on consecutive weekends when our club rules explicitly prohibit that.

My other concern is that the club was organized for recreational purposes, and this guy is using our aircraft to support his business. Now that's a gray area because I occasionally fly my wife for her business - maybe two or three times a year. I don't know where you draw the line, but it seems a bit unfair to the other members. Just sucks because for the last three years the plane has been more or less accessible whenever you wanted it - now it's gone for long blocks of time.

But I'm just whining now - it's an internal matter that hopefully our club will deal with.
 
Murdoughnut said:
You're right - and I've expressed my concerns about a couple of things. Mainly that he's checking the plane out on consecutive weekends when our club rules explicitly prohibit that.

My other concern is that the club was organized for recreational purposes, and this guy is using our aircraft to support his business. Now that's a gray area because I occasionally fly my wife for her business - maybe two or three times a year. I don't know where you draw the line, but it seems a bit unfair to the other members. Just sucks because for the last three years the plane has been more or less accessible whenever you wanted it - now it's gone for long blocks of time.

But I'm just whining now - it's an internal matter that hopefully our club will deal with.
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Scheduling problems are different than what you posted earlier. Obviously, it needs to be addressed.
 
What's the point in an airplane if it doesn't fly?

Something tells me if it is presented as too much of an issue to him, with him flying this much, he'll be seeking an aircraft of his own. Your problems may be coming to an end sooner than you think.

If I were part of a club/ownership group and the other "members"/owners told me I was flying too much, but I needed to do so to support my business...I'd be buying something for myself. Planes are cheap right now.

If it's really a problem for the other members/owners, then address it. If not, then let him fly the plane.

-mini
 
Well, if he really is going to fly that much, it is only a matter of time before he decides the 172 is too slow and buys a bonanza or mooney.
 
Murdoughnut said:
This isn't a guy I ever talk to, so I don't know what his attitude is or anything else. Like I said, just wanted to see what others thought.
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It is quite hard to side with you on this one for the mere fact that we don't know the kind of conditions he is departing in. You said in your original post that he departed after others canceled for questionable weather. But what is questionable weather?

I personally would be concerned with most new private pilots just doing trips like that in the first place. However, I have seen a couple that it wouldn't worry me in the least. The question is how good is he and how good are his risk management skills, something none of us here can know.
 
shdw said:
It is quite hard to side with you on this one for the mere fact that we don't know the kind of conditions he is departing in. You said in your original post that he departed after others canceled for questionable weather. But what is questionable weather?

I personally would be concerned with most new private pilots just doing trips like that in the first place. However, I have seen a couple that it wouldn't worry me in the least. The question is how good is he and how good are his risk management skills, something none of us here can know.
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Very true - I don't have all of the information.
 
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