LORAN officially going away?

Did nobody notice this part of the announcement:

If a single, domestic national system to back up GPS is identified as being necessary, the Department of Homeland Security will complete an analysis of potential backups to GPS.
Click to expand...

How eff'd up do you think that process will be ?
 
It is official, I am a member of the Coast Guard Aux. This email was circulated.

James B. Duncan, DSO-NS
US Coast Guard Auxiliary
District Eleven Northern Region
District Staff Officer for Navigation Systems
For ATON, Bridges & Chart Updating
PDVC-ON for Aids to Navigation & Chart Updating
8630 Duryea Drive
Sacramento, CA 95828-5819
916-689-9304


From: Eleventh Coast Guard District LNM Notification
To: Fourteenth-cg-dlnm@cgls.uscg.mil ; Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 8:43 AM
Subject: SPECIAL NOTICE TERMINATION OF ALL U.S. LORAN-C SIGNALS
SPECIAL NOTICE

SUBJ: TERMINATION OF ALL U.S. LORAN-C SIGNALS
1. IAW THE 2010 DHS APPROPRIATIONS ACT, THE U.S. COAST GUARD WILL TERMINATE THE TRANSMISSION OF ALL U.S. LORAN-C SIGNALS EFFECTIVE 2000Z 08 FEB 2010. AT THAT TIME, THE U.S. LORAN-C SIGNAL WILL BE UNUSABLE AND PERMANENTLY DISCONTINUED. THIS TERMINATION DOES NOT AFFECT U.S. PARTICIPATION IN THE RUSSIAN-AMERICAN OR CANADIAN LORAN-C CHAINS. U.S. PARTICIPATION IN THESE CHAINS WILL CONTINUE TEMPORARILY IN ACCORDANCE WITH INTERNATIONAL AGREEMENTS.
 
MikeD said:
GPS isn't immune to meaconing, intrusion, jamming and interference (MIJI). Putting all our global-nav eggs in the GPS basket, as a nation, isn't wise IMHO.
Click to expand...

That's why I think GPS with NDB sites is about the best possible bet. NDB is cheap to maintain, and in the flat land gets you down low enough. ILS/LOC approaches as backup approaches.
 
Cessnaflyer said:
When I was teaching at Big Bend Community College, the George, Washington LORAN was just south of our practice area. Those are some mighty big towers and they just updated the strobes on them so they are very eerie to see in the fog.
Click to expand...

can someone post a pic of what the actual loran stations look like?

never even seen one!
 
loran1.jpg
 
ppragman said:
Dead reckoning i bet?
Click to expand...

Hehe, only as a lost resort. Find a contrail and follow it. No, what I was referring to was our primary means of navigation when the plane does not have GPS installed - IRUs (inertial reference units). They are completely internal and not dependent on any navigational aid. Sure, you might get some map shift or drift but, for the most part, pretty darn good. Relatively old tech too.
 
Tis a shame that they will be doing away with it. I've used it, and it was very, very accurate for what I was doing. The system had great potential for a GPS backup (eLORAN) at a much lower cost than a network of VOR's. The problem would have been convincing people to make a combo GPS/eLORAN receiver. eLORAN had the lateral accuracy of GPS, so it could have been used in an enroute IFR environment, and potentially within terminal and approach environments.
 
Capt. Caucasian said:
Hehe, only as a lost resort. Find a contrail and follow it. No, what I was referring to was our primary means of navigation when the plane does not have GPS installed - IRUs (inertial reference units). They are completely internal and not dependent on any navigational aid. Sure, you might get some map shift or drift but, for the most part, pretty darn good. Relatively old tech too.
Click to expand...

So essentially super high tech dead reckoning. Lol, yeah, I knew a guy who used to be a 747 captain before he got age 60'd, before that he flew DC6s, he used to talk about the navigators back in the old days, flying along with a star sight, a dead reckoned course. Big huevos would be required for that kind of thing. Are the IRUs off of lasers? or is that strictly IRS?
 
ppragman said:
Are the IRUs off of lasers? or is that strictly IRS?
Click to expand...

IRU/IRS same same for our purposes.

The old Litton 99's had ring laser gyros, and the new systems, as far as I know, operate the same.

I remember reading an article one time about flying across Russia when it opened up. You were required to have a Russian navigator (I wish it was a Russian radio operator, but that's a whole 'nother deal). The writer said the navigator would shoot the stars or sun and be within about 0.1 of the GPS.

Pretty good, eh?
 
Polar742 said:
IRU/IRS same same for our purposes.

The old Litton 99's had ring laser gyros, and the new systems, as far as I know, operate the same.

I remember reading an article one time about flying across Russia when it opened up. You were required to have a Russian navigator (I wish it was a Russian radio operator, but that's a whole 'nother deal). The writer said the navigator would shoot the stars or sun and be within about 0.1 of the GPS.

Pretty good, eh?
Click to expand...

That's awesome, I wish I knew cel nav, that stuff is amazing. Lol, when I worked at the Army/Navy store in Anc a couple of polar guys would come in periodically and talk about when russia was opening and how, bored out of their minds for countless hours across the steppe, they would pretend to be SAC crews bombing targets. One of those polar guys taught me about the miracle that is skype too. That wasn't you was it?

Are you guys still required to have a russian nav on board? I've heard that was a requirement for the VFR route to provediniya but the last time they did that was awhile ago.
 
ppragman said:
That's awesome, I wish I knew cel nav, that stuff is amazing.
Click to expand...

Wizardry and magic, as far as I'm concerned. I do know a guy that crossed the north pole in a DC8 using a wrist watch and the sun. Then again, he's way too smart to be flying planes for a living.

Lol, when I worked at the Army/Navy store in Anc a couple of polar guys would come in periodically and talk about when russia was opening and how, bored out of their minds for countless hours across the steppe, they would pretend to be SAC crews bombing targets. One of those polar guys taught me about the miracle that is skype too. That wasn't you was it?
Click to expand...

No...but yes, it is periodically boring.

Are you guys still required to have a russian nav on board? I've heard that was a requirement for the VFR route to provediniya but the last time they did that was awhile ago.
Click to expand...

No


sorry to be such a let down. :laff:
 
Polar742 said:
Wizardry and magic, as far as I'm concerned. I do know a guy that crossed the north pole in a DC8 using a wrist watch and the sun. Then again, he's way too smart to be flying planes for a living.



No...but yes, it is periodically boring.



No


sorry to be such a let down. :laff:
Click to expand...

You're kidding about the bolded part right. As for the rest, no worries, just curious.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top