Mesa Air Group Files for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy

[Blackhawk]

IIRC, Mesa going into any kind of Bankruptcy activates contractual clauses with Delta and Airways giving the two legacy carriers open options on immediate contract termination without penalty.

I'm sorry. I was looking at your avatar. Did you say something?

 

[Hootie]

Re: Mesa Air gets notice of delisting from Nasdaq

Im surprised it took this long. Its terrible performance shouldve landed it in the pink sheets long ago.

 

[H46Bubba]

Re: Mesa Air gets notice of delisting from Nasdaq

Doesn't this mean the stock holders can request to be paid out immediately?

Actually the stock is worth nothing. I had Delta stock when we went into BK. Worthless the day they filed(Learned to not invest in airlines ever again!) and I was out $5,000. If...and I stress if, MAG survives BK, they will issue new stock. It will be up to the previous shareholders if they want to invest.

 

[Polar742]

Except Continental, which can't because of, and say it with me folks, "SCOPE!"

You realize they are walking around it with Q400s, right? Seggy and all them are saying they are flying routes that used to be 50 seaters.

I appreciate your desire for scope, but that scope needs to recapture the flying at the mainline level, not pin a certain seat number. The perspective needs to change.

There will always be a need for "right size airplanes" for thinner routes. The real coup is to get all that flying, from the 19 seat routes to the 400 seat routes, done by one pilot group.

 

[jtrain609]

I'm incredibly aware. There are a lot of guys at my company that blame the Q400 for their furlough, so everybody at Express is intimately familiar with Continental's scope language.

I'm willing to bet CAL pilots put a cap on large TP flying in their next contract.

You realize they are walking around it with Q400s, right? Seggy and all them are saying they are flying routes that used to be 50 seaters.

I appreciate your desire for scope, but that scope needs to recapture the flying at the mainline level, not pin a certain seat number. The perspective needs to change.

There will always be a need for "right size airplanes" for thinner routes. The real coup is to get all that flying, from the 19 seat routes to the 400 seat routes, done by one pilot group.

 

[Polar742]

There are a lot of guys at my company that blame the Q400 for their furlough.

That's not true, they were blaming CHQ when they got furloughed. Now they're blaming Colgan?

Blame CAL and management, and mostly CAL. CAL didn't want an exclusive provider of lift, so they diversified. The way that they did it also put XJT in a very bad position. The only thing XJT management could have done successfully would be to slash and burn the over and done E145 fleet, and aggressively add the new hotness to their fleet.

Ultimately, that would have been very painful. They get bonus points for trying to do all they can to save the airline, and I'd say they've done quite well for that.

I'm willing to bet CAL pilots put a cap on large TP flying in their next contract.

Sure they will try, but that large TP scope has been around for a long time, and I'll bet it would be too "expensive" to change. I can be surprised, but of all the issues I understand that go on with a CBA, that small (although it's very important) is more likely to be left alone.

 

[jtrain609]

That's not true, they were blaming CHQ when they got furloughed. Now they're blaming Colgan?

Blame CAL and management, and mostly CAL. CAL didn't want an exclusive provider of lift, so they diversified. The way that they did it also put XJT in a very bad position. The only thing XJT management could have done successfully would be to slash and burn the over and done E145 fleet, and aggressively add the new hotness to their fleet.

Ultimately, that would have been very painful. They get bonus points for trying to do all they can to save the airline, and I'd say they've done quite well for that.

It has very little to do with the Q, to tell you the truth, though if you polled a group of Newark FO's I doubt they'd tell you that. The real reason we got furloughed was Delta. They terminated their contract early and we ended up pulling down 39 airframes in a one week period; 28 of those were flying for Delta. We were the first causality in the DCI carrier shuffle. But that isn't what people want to hear! People want to hear about big turboprops and crappy pay rates! Oh and branded! Jesus when branded failed EVERYTHING FAILED! We had 11 airframes in branded service when it was terminated, not the 69 people seem to think we had.

Sure they will try, but that large TP scope has been around for a long time, and I'll bet it would be too "expensive" to change. I can be surprised, but of all the issues I understand that go on with a CBA, that small (although it's very important) is more likely to be left alone.

We'll have to see what happens. Continental has a lot of former regional guys in the ranks right now, and all of them know how much scope has eroded the profession. I didn't run into one CAL pilot that was interested in giving anything away, and I wouldn't be too surprised if they try to tighten scope up.

We'll have to see how it works out, though.

 

[kellwolf]

I'm willing to bet CAL pilots put a cap on large TP flying in their next contract.

Probably. But if Bombardier comes out with a 100 seat TP or similar between now and when they contract is signed, it's gonna be pretty tough to put the genie back in the bottle. Not impossible, but tough. I'd love to see it, but I've gotten pretty bitter and jaded.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

Bombardier is coming out with one... they're widening the cabin of the Q400 for 3x2 seating. Comfy.

 

[OldTownPilot]

Probably. But if Bombardier comes out with a 100 seat TP or similar between now and when they contract is signed, it's gonna be pretty tough to put the genie back in the bottle. Not impossible, but tough. I'd love to see it, but I've gotten pretty bitter and jaded.

The small TP is already capped at I believe 79 seats. Or 75, something like that.

 

[ppragman]

Aye, bittersweet.

Perhaps there's a lesson for us pilot types as well.

Maybe chasing rapid upgrades and sacrificing all else in search of turbine PIC time isn't so wise, after all.

Took me awhile to figure it out, but this is about money and quality of life, nothing else. By the way, good thread that "rapid upgrade" thread. Upgrade, turbine PIC, all of that doesn't mean squat if you can't enjoy your life because you don't make any money, and don't have any time off. If that means I never see the left seat of turbine equipment, then so be it, at least I'll have a life.

 

[Polar742]

The real reason we got furloughed was Delta. They terminated their contract early and we ended up pulling down 39 airframes in a one week period; 28 of those were flying for Delta.

Delta wouldn't have been an issue had CAL kept all the airframes.

We'll have to see what happens. Continental has a lot of former regional guys in the ranks right now, and all of them know how much scope has eroded the profession. I didn't run into one CAL pilot that was interested in giving anything away, and I wouldn't be too surprised if they try to tighten scope up.

We'll have to see how it works out, though.

While past performance is not a reliable predictor of future performance, it does provide insight.

Unless there is a revolution across the board, I doubt it will happen. I'm not saying "never", but we know how often something truly innovating happens in this industry.

But, you are correct, we will see.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

I had much more time off at Mesa than I do flying freight... in the sense that it was easy to get blocks of like 4 or so days off every month. But I prefer freight... sitting airport reserve every day for a month makes you want to commit seppuku.

 

[OldTownPilot]

Delta wouldn't have been an issue had CAL kept all the airframes.



.

Which we all knew was NEVER going to happen in a million years. Even if they were going to fly the 69 for cost -25% they would not have been awarded the RFP.

XJT had been spun off, Kellner, Bethune and gang all made their coin, and it was all about the ability for them to be able to diversify their feed, and all the advantages that come along with that for the company.

 

[Polar742]

Which we all knew was NEVER going to happen in a million years. Even if they were going to fly the 69 for cost -25% they would not have been awarded the RFP.

XJT had been spun off, Kellner, Bethune and gang all made their coin, and it was all about the ability for them to be able to diversify their feed, and all the advantages that come along with that for the company.

Very true, which is why DL had little to do with it.

CAL spun off the airline, yet didn't let it get positioned with the proper assets to compete, then took away the lifeline.

 

[jtrain609]

Delta wouldn't have been an issue had CAL kept all the airframes.

You can go back as far as you want, but in the end the airframes HAD a home after Continental. Others can place blame on Continental all they want, but as Justin notes, Express was not going to keep those airplanes no matter what.

So ExpressJet found a home for them, and that contract was terminated a year early.

 

[Firebird2XC]

Took me awhile to figure it out, but this is about money and quality of life, nothing else. By the way, good thread that "rapid upgrade" thread. Upgrade, turbine PIC, all of that doesn't mean squat if you can't enjoy your life because you don't make any money, and don't have any time off. If that means I never see the left seat of turbine equipment, then so be it, at least I'll have a life.

Amen, brother, amen.

 

[Firebird2XC]

And by "Mesaba" you mean Delta. Honestly, I don't see Delta buying jack from Mesa unless it's to turn around and sell it for a profit. They've made no secrets that they want "large RJs" more than small RJs. They've underlined that by parking Saabs in alarming numbers. I just don't see them buying 135s, 145s or more -200s to replace the Saab when they can just as easily cut 50 seat flying and put an existing 50 seater on the Saab route, which is what they've been doing for months in MEM. Former 9E routes are now flown by -900s or 175s and they're moving Saab routes over to us.



I see Pinnacle trying the "give us this in a contract or we won't win the RFP" trick.....again. Management is still smarting from losing United to XJT.

Agreed with all of the above.. that's all too likely.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

I think regional pilots have finally woken up to the fact that growth is an illusion.

PNCL: 'Give us this substandard contract or we won't win this RFP!!!'
PNCL MEC: 'I guess if we won't get any new flying it is that much more important to ensure we have a good contract!'

 

[tonyw]

Took me awhile to figure it out, but this is about money and quality of life, nothing else.

That's what any job is about. Employers these days will lay you off at the drop of a hat so as an employee you should try to get as much out of them as quick as you can. You never know when one of the execs will get a bug put in his ear by someone on Wall Street about how the company could save so much money and goose revenue by doing this that or the other to the employees.