Marketing as a freelance CFI

[moxiepilot]

$50 an hour really? in my opinion that's pretty high.

To me, not really. If someone has 10x the experience of those they are teaching, that might be considered professional, and worthy of the pay.

Not really... do you know how much people pay experienced golf pros, etc? You're teaching people how not to kill themselves while operating their $500,000 airplanes. I personally think that's worth $50/hr...

I do too, but you cannot compare other industries to aviation, because aviation has shot itself in the foot by undervaluing its own worth. Too many places only charge $50 an hour and force freelance to charge about the same.

The quickest way to loose business is to say your an expert in something and than have a student know more than you. W

As an additional thought to the above, i CREATED the elearning software program for Garmin's 695/696 and would be considered by them as a SME. However, even with all that knowledge I don't advertise as a 696 GPS expert. I put well over 2000 hours into that program. Bundle it with another few hundred in the plane, then I might consider tacking it onto my resume.

That said, I undervalue my abilities sometimes. I never consider myself an expert in an area until I have a lot more experience than others who might consider themselves an expert would.

 

[The Gardener]

I agree 100% that pilots do a LOT of pro bono work. The industry needs to abandon this crap of only paying for Hobbs time. At the same time, did you really spend 45 minutes with each student without the prop turning?

From my experience:

Arrive early and preflight
Walk to the plane and discuss lesson with the CFI and get settled in (0.1-0.2)
Fly for ~1.5
Debrief (0.1-0.2)

So on most flights, I spend no more than 0.5 with the instructor out of the plane. Not saying you're cheating your students, but when you charge that much ground per flight, some students may feel like they're being taken for a ride, and that will negatively affect the word of mouth marketing.

If you feel you can easily explain those extra 6 minute blocks because of your teaching method, then very good. However, make sure your students never feel like you're tipping yourself by adding a few extra tenths.

I'm the sort of student who won't think twice to pay more for quality training, but at the same time, I don't fly with CFI's who I think are milking their students.

What would a 'Chief Captain' need an instructor for?

 

[Chief Captain]

What would a 'Chief Captain' need an instructor for?

LOL. That was back in the good old days when I was a 200hr private. Now I'm a 300hr commercial...king of the world :rotfl:

 

[jrh]

I have another 600 hours of glass jet time if that helps matters.

But no, really, right now I'd be more of an "expert" at flying through junk weather in junk airplanes with junk round dials.

Yeah, I wasn't trying to be a jerk. I've just run in to instructors every now and then who think their jet time transfers to GA avionics, when frankly, it doesn't.

They can teach G1000 ops about as well as I can teach Rockwell Pro Line ops



Last week I flew with a new 206 owner on a two hour trip between Omaha and Chicago. We spent most of the time going over the G1000 and how to to use it most efficiently during cross countries. It really blew him away.

Prior to buying the 206, the owner had gotten a few hours of G1000 training in a sim with a retired airline pilot who was supposed to be the best instructor at his local flight school. He said by the end of their session together, he couldn't believe the instructor had flown at an airline. A lot of bumbling and fumbling apparently.

I'm sure the guy was a talented instructor, but the skills acquired flying widebody jets may not be specific enough to benefit the average GA pilot. I told the guy I was flying with that his instructor was probably a fountain of knowledge when it comes to things like professionalism, dealing with weather, handling emergencies, etc., but to learn a specific avionics suite, he would be better off using an instructor intimately familiar with that specific set of avionics.

 

[jrh]

I go to work to make money of course. But I'm not directly responsible for the career progress of others. Why when everyone else in his area is charging $20 is he worth $50. Yeah if I had my own $500,000 airplane maybe I would in enlist a more experienced instructor. But a regular Private or Commercial student trying to make this a career has their own bills to pay plus flight school cost to pay. Cost is a real issue with most people. I would want an instructor who is actually interested in helping their students and not strictly trying to make money. When they already have a ob to "pay the bills". He siad it wouldn't be worth his time for anything less.

I'll leave the rest of the crowd here to hammer you over these comments

All I will say, is, I hope you come back and read your words again after you have been flying professionally for a couple years and have a few hundred hours of instruction given under your belt. Then let us know what you think is fair.

 

[dasleben]

Yeah, I wasn't trying to be a jerk. I've just run in to instructors every now and then who think their jet time transfers to GA avionics, when frankly, it doesn't.

They can teach G1000 ops about as well as I can teach Rockwell Pro Line ops



Last week I flew with a new 206 owner on a two hour trip between Omaha and Chicago. We spent most of the time going over the G1000 and how to to use it most efficiently during cross countries. It really blew him away.

Prior to buying the 206, the owner had gotten a few hours of G1000 training in a sim with a retired airline pilot who was supposed to be the best instructor at his local flight school. He said by the end of their session together, he couldn't believe the instructor had flown at an airline. A lot of bumbling and fumbling apparently.

I'm sure the guy was a talented instructor, but the skills acquired flying widebody jets may not be specific enough to benefit the average GA pilot. I told the guy I was flying with that his instructor was probably a fountain of knowledge when it comes to things like professionalism, dealing with weather, handling emergencies, etc., but to learn a specific avionics suite, he would be better off using an instructor intimately familiar with that specific set of avionics.

Very good points, thanks.

 

[poser765]

I go to work to make money of course. But I'm not directly responsible for the career progress of others. Why when everyone else in his area is charging $20 is he worth $50. Yeah if I had my own $500,000 airplane maybe I would in enlist a more experienced instructor. But a regular Private or Commercial student trying to make this a career has their own bills to pay plus flight school cost to pay. Cost is a real issue with most people. I would want an instructor who is actually interested in helping their students and not strictly trying to make money. When they already have a ob to "pay the bills". He siad it wouldn't be worth his time for anything less.

Your argument is predicated on the thought that MOST people in flight training are in to start a career and to do it on cheapest level possible. I personally know of 1 flight school who caters to wealthier clients. Their fees and rates are pretty high too, but they stay busy.

Most students should also know that their instructor is trying to make a living, not donate his time to bring the gift of flight to the masses. It IS an endeavor to make money and there is nothing unethical about trying to make as much of it as you can.

 

[Krieger]

$50 an hour really? in my opinion that's pretty high. I don't know if I would want to pay someone who is teaching just for the money. It would give them incentive to make your training drag out longer.

I was thinking just the opposite. But, I'd be more concerned about the motives of a CFI that is instructing just for the flight hours and getting low balled in the pay department. Low pay typically kills the moral of flight instructors. IMO

 

[minitour]

I go to work to make money of course.

I kinda figured.

But I'm not directly responsible for the career progress of others. Why when everyone else in his area is charging $20 is he worth $50. Yeah if I had my own $500,000 airplane maybe I would in enlist a more experienced instructor. But a regular Private or Commercial student trying to make this a career has their own bills to pay plus flight school cost to pay. Cost is a real issue with most people. I would want an instructor who is actually interested in helping their students and not strictly trying to make money. When they already have a ob to "pay the bills". He siad it wouldn't be worth his time for anything less.

Some day you'll understand. Right now, your mind is made up. That will change.

-mini

 

[Douglas]

When somebody asks your rate, tell them $50/hour without flinching. Don't apologize for it or start explaining why you're worth it. Just tell them the rate and move on.

:yeahthat:

Plus $50 is in no way out of line, especially for a freelance CFI. If I went Freelance, it would be for no less than $50.

 

[msmspilot]

I agree 100% that pilots do a LOT of pro bono work. The industry needs to abandon this crap of only paying for Hobbs time. At the same time, did you really spend 45 minutes with each student without the prop turning?

From my experience:

Arrive early and preflight
Walk to the plane and discuss lesson with the CFI and get settled in (0.1-0.2)
Fly for ~1.5
Debrief (0.1-0.2)

So on most flights, I spend no more than 0.5 with the instructor out of the plane. Not saying you're cheating your students, but when you charge that much ground per flight, some students may feel like they're being taken for a ride, and that will negatively affect the word of mouth marketing.

If you feel you can easily explain those extra 6 minute blocks because of your teaching method, then very good. However, make sure your students never feel like you're tipping yourself by adding a few extra tenths.

I'm the sort of student who won't think twice to pay more for quality training, but at the same time, I don't fly with CFI's who I think are milking their students.

If that's an accurate representation of your typical lesson, I'd be shocked. Most students don't show up early, and certainly don't use that time to preflight if they do. So when someone says they spend 45 minutes with a student on the ground, it's something like:
10 min: Preflight briefing
20 min: preflight
15 min: postflight debriefing

The one student I have that does actually show up early and preflights his airplane, well, his times look more like yours.

 

[minitour]

I charge a day (9 hours w/ 1 hr lunch) and half-day (4 hour) rates. If the student shows up 30 minutes late, they're still charged for that time. If I spend 10 minutes with them before the prop turns or 45 minutes, it really doesn't matter. It's my time. They're taking it when they schedule it, so they're paying for it.

In return, during those 4-8 hours, my phone gets turned off and I am prepared to teach for 4-8 hours. If I run out of time at the end because they showed up 30 minutes late, spent 25 minutes on the cell phone and had to leave 15 minutes early, that's just going to have to be covered in the next lesson. In this way, much of how the student's time is spent is up to them.

-mini

 

[dasleben]

I agree 100% that pilots do a LOT of pro bono work. The industry needs to abandon this crap of only paying for Hobbs time. At the same time, did you really spend 45 minutes with each student without the prop turning?

From my experience:

Arrive early and preflight
Walk to the plane and discuss lesson with the CFI and get settled in (0.1-0.2)
Fly for ~1.5
Debrief (0.1-0.2)

So on most flights, I spend no more than 0.5 with the instructor out of the plane. Not saying you're cheating your students, but when you charge that much ground per flight, some students may feel like they're being taken for a ride, and that will negatively affect the word of mouth marketing.

If you feel you can easily explain those extra 6 minute blocks because of your teaching method, then very good. However, make sure your students never feel like you're tipping yourself by adding a few extra tenths.

I'm the sort of student who won't think twice to pay more for quality training, but at the same time, I don't fly with CFI's who I think are milking their students.

The way I explained it was this:

We're scheduled from 1200-1400. We started the brief at 1200, then you went out and preflighted the aircraft. I don't charge for .3 for the preflight unless it's a pre-solo student pilot (and you should be able to preflight a 172 or Seminole in 18 minutes). We went flying for a 1.1 on the hobbs, came back, and debriefed, finishing at 1400.

I charge a 1.7 for that. 1.1 flight, .6 ground. I think that's fair.

I charge a day (9 hours w/ 1 hr lunch) and half-day (4 hour) rates. If the student shows up 30 minutes late, they're still charged for that time. If I spend 10 minutes with them before the prop turns or 45 minutes, it really doesn't matter. It's my time. They're taking it when they schedule it, so they're paying for it.

In return, during those 4-8 hours, my phone gets turned off and I am prepared to teach for 4-8 hours. If I run out of time at the end because they showed up 30 minutes late, spent 25 minutes on the cell phone and had to leave 15 minutes early, that's just going to have to be covered in the next lesson. In this way, much of how the student's time is spent is up to them.

-mini

That's a good way to do it. When I did a little bit of freelance stuff in PR I charged by 2-hour minimum blocks. My two students had no problem with that. The meter was running at the scheduled time, and I was prepared to teach for 2 hours. If the student had to leave early, that was fine, but I still made my 2 hours.

It's just like any other professional in any other business.

 

[MikeD]

:yeahthat:

Plus $50 is in no way out of line, especially for a freelance CFI. If I went Freelance, it would be for no less than $50.

You can only charge what people are willing to pay......that is, if you want to make a living. You'll get an idea if you're overestimating your worth as a CFI if you charge too much, and no one hires you. By the same token, don't ever sell yourself short.

 

[minitour]

It's just like any other professional in any other business.

Exactly. When I show up 10 minutes late for an appointment with my attorney, spend 10 minutes on the phone and leave 10 minutes early.......amazingly I still get billed for that :30. My time is just as valuable to me as his is to him.

-mini

 

[surreal1221]

I'm curious. Why do you go to work?

-mini

lawl.

You make'ah me laugh.

 

[minitour]

lawl.

You make'ah me laugh.

What did I say now?:dunno:

-mini

 

[surreal1221]

No worries brosef. You didn't say anything.

Some people think that the "joy" of flying is compensation enough. To them, I laugh.

Which, is why you make'ah me laugh when you inquire as to why a member goes to work.

"For the LOVE man, I don't need no MONEY1!1"

 

[minitour]

No worries brosef. You didn't say anything.

Ah...I wan' sure. This dayquil makes me a lil whacky. A-hyuk.

No, but seriously....warm fuzzies are nice, but they don't feed the dog.

-mini

 

[surreal1221]

yeah, that feeling one gets when they rotate isn't legal tender. Nor is the experience of being in ground effect.