Commercial Cert Part 141 Question

futurepilot1

futurepilot1

Well-Known Member
From Appendix D to Part 141—Commercial Pilot Certification Course


4. Flight training. (a) Each approved course must include at least the following flight training, as provided in this section and section No. 5 of this appendix, on the approved areas of operation listed in paragraph (d) of this section that are appropriate to the aircraft category and class rating for which the course applies:
(1) 120 hours of training if the course is for an airplane or powered-lift rating.
(2) 155 hours of training if the course is for an airship rating.
(3) 115 hours of training if the course is for a rotocraft rating.
(4) 6 hours of training if the course is for a glider rating.
(5) 10 hours of training and 8 training flights if the course is for a balloon rating.
(b) Each approved course must include at least the following flight training:
(1) For an airplane single-engine course: 55 hours of flight training from a certificated flight instructor on the approved areas of operation listed in paragraph (d)(1) of this section that includes at least—




The bolded sections seem to contradict each other...does this mean after I have my Private and Instrument, I have to do another 120 hours of training with an instructor...or does it mean the time i have already done for the private and instrument count toward that, and i do another 55 with an instructor for the commercial??
 
futurepilot1 said:
From Appendix D to Part 141—Commercial Pilot Certification Course


4. Flight training. (a) Each approved course must include at least the following flight training, as provided in this section and section No. 5 of this appendix, on the approved areas of operation listed in paragraph (d) of this section that are appropriate to the aircraft category and class rating for which the course applies:
(1) 120 hours of training if the course is for an airplane or powered-lift rating.
(2) 155 hours of training if the course is for an airship rating.
(3) 115 hours of training if the course is for a rotocraft rating.
(4) 6 hours of training if the course is for a glider rating.
(5) 10 hours of training and 8 training flights if the course is for a balloon rating.
(b) Each approved course must include at least the following flight training:
(1) For an airplane single-engine course: 55 hours of flight training from a certificated flight instructor on the approved areas of operation listed in paragraph (d)(1) of this section that includes at least—




The bolded sections seem to contradict each other...does this mean after I have my Private and Instrument, I have to do another 120 hours of training with an instructor (Nope)...or does it mean the time i have already done for the private and instrument count toward that, and i do another 55 with an instructor for the commercial?? (also no to this)
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Think about it as an actual school course.
It is a course that you will need to do from start to finish.

That course is 120 hours long, durning those hours you will be with an instructor for 55 of those hours, the rest will be solo training.

You get zero credit for your x-c or night or ABC123 from private/instr.
It is 120 hours long and you will do whatever your TCO/Syllabus says you will do for any given lesson.

I am sure somebody will be along shortly to talk about 61, sad but it hard to argue against 61 (edit:...for commercial training)
 
Douglas said:
That course is 120 hours long, durning those hours you will be with an instructor for 55 of those hours, the rest will be solo training.
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:insane: Didn't even think about it that way. Gotchya.

The only reason i am considering going to a 141 school is because in the area I work i have two airports with a total of 4 schools. One is ATP...too expensive for my blood...one is a part 141 that charges about 50% more for plane rental and 5-10 dollars more for instructor fees than most of the comparable schools in the area...that leaves two that are reasonably priced. One is a part 61, but they use Diamonds as their single engine trainer, and I can't stand riding in them. i am a relatively big guy, and they are way too tight for me...plus that school is still more expensive than the 141 school next door...they are the cheepest, and they are an authorized cessna training center(for whatever that is worth)
 
I don't know if this is the Part 61 post Douglas was mentioning, but here goes.

As he indicated, the easiest thing to do is to read the school's TCO. However, that doesn't mean you have to finish under that TCO if you meet the qualifications of Part 61. What commonly happens is that students enroll in Part 141 because the VA or state or some other organization will only pay for a Part 141 course. But, if they reach a stage where they meet the Part 61 qualifications and their flight instructor feels they are ready for the test, they take the practical test (check ride) under Part 61. This saves everyone money (except the flight school). This savings allows the student to continue using their benefits (VA, state, whatever) towards further more advanced courses.
 
some placed combine instrument and commercial into a single tco, then the times do count. The couse is still 120hrs long
 
nosehair said:
I've never heard of that - can you cite a specific example?
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UND, 4 sub-courses total in the commercial TCO.
1. building time for commercial and start of instrument
2. instrument
3. commercial SEL (need to complete 98 hours by this point)
4. commercial MEL (total ends up around 125hrs or so)

can theoretically earn a commercial at bare mins for everything @ 160hours (35 for PPL, 125 for commercial) and can theorectically be a CFI with 185 hours (25 for cfi part 141)
 
Blip16 said:
UND, 4 sub-courses total in the commercial TCO.
1. building time for commercial and start of instrument
2. instrument
3. commercial SEL (need to complete 98 hours by this point)
4. commercial MEL (total ends up around 125hrs or so)

can theoretically earn a commercial at bare mins for everything @ 160hours (35 for PPL, 125 for commercial) and can theorectically be a CFI with 185 hours (25 for cfi part 141)
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Sounds like a special curricula. Airman had one for their commercial program. They called it the "short commercial" course. You need to show an equivalent level of training/proficiency with fewer hours, but it can be done. I'm on the fence on those. Good for the student if it works (saves them money), but at 200 hours with a CFI/CFII/possibly MEI, what are you going to be doing that you aren't doing at 250 hours with the same certificates/ratings?

-mini
 
minitour said:
Sounds like a special curricula. Airman had one for their commercial program. They called it the "short commercial" course. You need to show an equivalent level of training/proficiency with fewer hours, but it can be done. I'm on the fence on those. Good for the student if it works (saves them money), but at 200 hours with a CFI/CFII/possibly MEI, what are you going to be doing that you aren't doing at 250 hours with the same certificates/ratings?

-mini
Click to expand...
nothing
 
One of the biggest advantages of a 141 school is they can sign you off for ratings with lower aeronautical experience requirements. Only you can determine if that's an advantage worth while to you or not. There are many other factors to onsider, not just the fact that you can get your CPL in less than 250 TT.
 
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