King Schools on Mac

[mshunter]

Yes you can honestly say mac's are extreme plug in a play.

Mabey plug and play wasn't the right term. What I was getting at was the average Joe doesn't want to mess with a machine to get his Cessna Pilot Center kit to work. I have had more than one student who has brought back a CPC kit because "it doesn't work on my machine, and the people I called at Cessna said that Mac's weren't supported."

This is what I was getting at, software issues that need multiple OS's loaded to use some programs.

 

[Joe Gremlin]

It is what it doesn't do that makes it great:

Fair enough, lets see how you did.

It doesn't crash.

If only that were true. Unfortunately, it isn't. Macs crash. It's true. I know the kool-aide drinkers don't want to believe it but facts is facts. Macs crash just like PCs and about as often in most cases. Which is to say, not all that often but they crash none the less.

It doesn't get bogged down after a month.

Well, sort of. What bogs down an OS? Installing a billion apps. How do you solve that? Limit the availability of apps. IOW, it ain't an OS thing, its an apps thing, and if you ain't got no apps, then you ain't got no bog. Period.

It doesn't lose 90 percent of it's value in a year.

This one is absolutely true. People like to spend exorbitant amounts of money on Macs. That applies whether they're new or used.

It doesn't get viruses.

Also true. They don't. If you had said 'can't' instead of 'don't' it would be a different story. They don't get infections because no one is creating infections for them. Yet.

It doesn't require anything, turn it on and it does its job.

That of course assumes that 'its job' fits your use profile. If you only need a web browser and email, then any computer (Windows, Mac, Linux) will 'do it's job' right out of the box. It's true that Macs have iTunes installed right out of the box, but isn't that free to everyone anyway? They also have iPhoto right out of the box, but isn't there about a billion different free photo management apps available for PCs on the net? Of course Macs also do word processing right out of the box via iLife. Oh wait, what's that? You have to pay for iLife? Yep. Sucks don't it?

Basically, reliability is why mac > windows.

The selling point for me was finding out generation 4 laptops that are almost 10 years old are selling for 40 percent of their purchase cost.

Like I said, people like to overpay for Macs. I'm not knocking it. In fact, I wish I had an ice cream sandwich that people would line up to pay $5 for when all the other ice cream sandwiches were selling for $3.

I have had this macbook for 8 months now and it has had a program lock it up for an unknown reason 3 times. Force quit/restart program fixed it in 5 seconds every time.

Ok I'm confused. Up above you said they don't crash. Now you're saying that you've only had applications crash 3 times in 8 months. I'm always amazed at how the Kool-aide effects the mathmatical ability of those who drink it.

In 10 years I have never seen any windows machine run with that kind of stability.

You haven't seen that kind of reliability from Windows, but I have. Many times in fact. Like I said, it all comes down to apps. Take 90% of the Windows apps that are out there and throw them in ocean and all Windows boxes would be as stable as Macs. Of course people who like computer games would be out of luck. Pilots who like electronic logbooks would be out of luck. Engineers who like AutoCAD would be out of luck. You get the idea. Oh and I almost forgot, people who wanted to use the King courses to study for their FAA exams would be out of luck.

Macs are wonderful machines. But they're machines and they have their limitations and compromises like any other. If those limitations and compromises work for you, and its in your budget, go for it. But don't for a minute believe that your computer issues will be over or that they'll never leave you in a lurch because it just ain't true. They're computers like any other and they're just as capable as any other to 'eff you when you need them most if you don't know what you're doing.

 

[Okie_Pilot]

My Mac has never crashed.

What bogs down an OS? Requiring 2 GIGS of memory to EVEN RUN the OS. Windows has wayyy too much background stuff running in the OS that is unnecessary.

I wouldn't call it exorbitant amounts of money compared to not having to buy AntiVirus/Adware/Spyware programs every year, Declustering, and taking it to the PC Shop to get fixed annually.

Oh, how I'm pretty sure you have to pay Microsoft's overpriced "Office" Suite after it's 30 or so day trial period is up to. That is, unless you plan on doing all your business typing in Notepad.

$5 Ice Cream vs $3 Ice Cream. Mercedes Benz vs Geo Metro. Sometimes the price is worth it.

 

[shdw]

If only that were true. Unfortunately, it isn't. Macs crash. It's true. I know the kool-aide drinkers don't want to believe it but facts is facts. Macs crash just like PCs and about as often in most cases. Which is to say, not all that often but they crash none the less.------Ok I'm confused. Up above you said they don't crash. Now you're saying that you've only had applications crash 3 times in 8 months. I'm always amazed at how the Kool-aide effects the mathmatical ability of those who drink it.

My turn and let us address this first. You quoted me saying they don't crash and that I have had applications lock up. Substitute applications with OS and I would have contradicted myself. However, I said the OS doesn't crash, which it hasn't.

Mind you this might not be true for windows 7, I don't know it's program architecture. Anyways, windows programs are intertwined or connected. If IE explorer crashes you often suffer a slow down or lock up of the entire machine. The task windows end task (similar to mac force quit) takes care of it. The problem is, it can sometimes take minutes to get there, depending on how bogged up it is. Often times it is quicker to just restart.

Mac architecture is much smarter than that. Programs operate independent of other programs and independent of the operating system. So if one locks up, tab to the mac OS, and force quit. Restart that application and within 5 seconds (10 if your slow with the mouse) you are back and running.

Well, sort of. What bogs down an OS? Installing a billion apps. How do you solve that? Limit the availability of apps. IOW, it ain't an OS thing, its an apps thing, and if you ain't got no apps, then you ain't got no bog. Period.

Not really. Sure software can slow it down. But the reasons are slightly different between the machines. Windows also has one other area that bogs it down, something mac has little susceptibility to.

Uninstalls are the culpret of much of windows problems. The registery is left a mess from poorly uninstalled software. Something mac doesn't suffer from.

Windows machines are often bogged down by virus/spyware/malware. Another issue mac does not have.

Finally, open applications on windows have poor quality control. Even now the IE explorer is still crap compared to firefox. By this I mean, their memory management, especially when idle (not the top/active app) is often horrible.

Mac has incredible memory management for its applications. Like I said in an earlier post, I typically have no less then 5 apps up at one time.

Also true. They don't. If you had said 'can't' instead of 'don't' it would be a different story. They don't get infections because no one is creating infections for them. Yet.

This has been a comment argued for over 10 years with regards to mac. Well, 10 years later, the machine is far more popular and still not susceptible to viruses. Not saying it won't change, but I am skeptical to how "easy" it is for people to give a mac a virus like I hear many people argue.



Summary: Why macs are more reliable:

PC: Bad memory management
Mac: Great memory management

PC: Poor uninstall/clean up of old programs
Mac: Perfect uninstall, old programs are completely removed

PC: Susceptible to malware/spyware/viruses
Mac: Not

PC: Programs designed to be intertwined with the OS and other programs
Mac: Programs run independently
Result: One failed program does not slow down the machine

Software and slow downs: Negligible



One last thing:

Of course people who like computer games would be out of luck. Pilots who like electronic logbooks would be out of luck. Engineers who like AutoCAD would be out of luck. You get the idea. Oh and I almost forgot, people who wanted to use the King courses to study for their FAA exams would be out of luck.

I run WoW and Age of Empire on the mac.
I run 3 different autocad softwares (for demonstrations) since dad is an architect and looking to purchase. I demo'ed them for him.
I have a logbook app installed
I have VMfusion installed (for windows) though I have run each maybe twice.
Along with about 50 other random applications. Still no bogging down.

So when I said, "its job," I meant any damn job you want "it" to be, it will do. It even runs windows faster than a windows machine! Common, what is there to argue?

Let us add one more thing to the list:

PC: Poorly constructed .exe files can often lead to sloppily installed applications.
Mac: Restrictions on the methods to build .dmg (install file for mac) resulting, usually, in stable installed applications.

 

[JordanD]

Not one mention of Martha yet? Has JC been struck with ED all the sudden?

 

[thepedroid]

I have a 2.4ghz imac with 4 gigs of ram. Just for fun, I once opened all the applications I have INCLUDING photoshop. It was over 30 apps and my computer still ran great. there was a lag of about 1 second switching between apps. I might try it again when I get home just to see what it does and report back pagins/outs

I also haven't rebooted in a lonnnnng time either with 2 users constantly switching back and forth.

viruses...neh, not really. you CAN get one if you give the virus the Admin password but there aren't really any out there. A little while back there was a virus that came out for iphones. The ONLY reason why it was possible was because people that jailbroke their phones were installing SSH and not changing the default password.

I switched from SuSe in 2005 because I was too lazy to learn Linux. After working at 2 major web hosting companies that run linux servers i'm getting back into it. Funny thing is that both companies run XP on ther machines for the tech support reps. Both companies ALWAYS have profile issues with their computers. I have seen more blue screens here than anywhere and we have a full desktop support team.

 

[Joe Gremlin]

My turn and let us address this first. You quoted me saying they don't crash and that I have had applications lock up. Substitute applications with OS and I would have contradicted myself. However, I said the OS doesn't crash, which it hasn't.

Mind you this might not be true for windows 7, I don't know it's program architecture. Anyways, windows programs are intertwined or connected. If IE explorer crashes you often suffer a slow down or lock up of the entire machine. The task windows end task (similar to mac force quit) takes care of it. The problem is, it can sometimes take minutes to get there, depending on how bogged up it is. Often times it is quicker to just restart.

Mac architecture is much smarter than that. Programs operate independent of other programs and independent of the operating system. So if one locks up, tab to the mac OS, and force quit. Restart that application and within 5 seconds (10 if your slow with the mouse) you are back and running.




Not really. Sure software can slow it down. But the reasons are slightly different between the machines. Windows also has one other area that bogs it down, something mac has little susceptibility to.

Uninstalls are the culpret of much of windows problems. The registery is left a mess from poorly uninstalled software. Something mac doesn't suffer from.

Windows machines are often bogged down by virus/spyware/malware. Another issue mac does not have.

Finally, open applications on windows have poor quality control. Even now the IE explorer is still crap compared to firefox. By this I mean, their memory management, especially when idle (not the top/active app) is often horrible.

Mac has incredible memory management for its applications. Like I said in an earlier post, I typically have no less then 5 apps up at one time.




This has been a comment argued for over 10 years with regards to mac. Well, 10 years later, the machine is far more popular and still not susceptible to viruses. Not saying it won't change, but I am skeptical to how "easy" it is for people to give a mac a virus like I hear many people argue.



Summary: Why macs are more reliable:

PC: Bad memory management
Mac: Great memory management

PC: Poor uninstall/clean up of old programs
Mac: Perfect uninstall, old programs are completely removed

PC: Susceptible to malware/spyware/viruses
Mac: Not

PC: Programs designed to be intertwined with the OS and other programs
Mac: Programs run independently
Result: One failed program does not slow down the machine

Software and slow downs: Negligible



One last thing:

I run WoW and Age of Empire on the mac.
I run 3 different autocad softwares (for demonstrations) since dad is an architect and looking to purchase. I demo'ed them for him.
I have a logbook app installed
I have VMfusion installed (for windows) though I have run each maybe twice.
Along with about 50 other random applications. Still no bogging down.

So when I said, "its job," I meant any damn job you want "it" to be, it will do. It even runs windows faster than a windows machine! Common, what is there to argue?

Let us add one more thing to the list:

PC: Poorly constructed .exe files can often lead to sloppily installed applications.
Mac: Restrictions on the methods to build .dmg (install file for mac) resulting, usually, in stable installed applications.

Wow, you win. I couldn't possibly argue all that. I feel so owned. I guess there's nothing left for me to do but go out and buy a Mac. Oh wait, I already own one. Lets just say my experience does not match yours and leave it at that.

 

[mshunter]

I have seen more blue screens here than anywhere and we have a full desktop support team.

Maybe it's the people, not the machine. Kinda like a Honda Civic. In the mid-late '90's, they had a bad rap of "kids and their damn cars!" And only because of their popularity, not because thats all they were. What about all the old laides that drove around Civics, that were of no issue. Point being, maybe we haven't seen the problems with Macs, because their just isn't that many out there yet.

 

[shdw]

Wow, you win. I couldn't possibly argue all that. I feel so owned. I guess there's nothing left for me to do but go out and buy a Mac. Oh wait, I already own one. Lets just say my experience does not match yours and leave it at that.

Fair enough. Thought I would like to hear what bad experiences you have had. I am unfamiliar with older macs, but the new ones have certainly dazzled me to say the least.

Maybe it's the people, not the machine

Now that I can agree with. Mac doesn't let you do as much, but it makes for a truly idiot proof, reliable, machine through simplicity. Windows, to keep with the, "everyone can build software/hardware for us" mentality, unfortunately requires a far more complex system that they cannot, yet at least, make idiot proof. Maybe windows 7 will prove me wrong, but it is too soon to tell.

 

[Joe Gremlin]

Fair enough. Thought I would like to hear what bad experiences you have had. I am unfamiliar with older macs, but the new ones have certainly dazzled me to say the least.

My Mac isn't really all that old. Its a Macbook Pro that's about 3 years old. It came with Tiger on it. It ran so so until I doubled the memory. The person above who said Macs don't need extra memory to improve performance like Windows computers do? Sorry, not the case with me. When Leopard came out, I put that on it. Had to add memory again of course but once I did that, it ran ok.

As for my bad experiences, its been nothing major, just a bunch of little things here and there that have added up to to an experience that's so so at best.

For instance when I first got the Mac, I HATED safari. I didn't really care for Firefox all that much either, but I liked it better than Safari. But these days I'm back to using Safari. Why? Because Firefox gives me the spinning disk of death every couple of minutes while I'm using it. Really annoying and every time it happens I picture in my mind all the kool-aide drinkers who like to smugly say get a Mac, they just work. I picture them in my mind, then I flip them all the bird, then I wait for Firefox to decide to work again. That was too frustrating and none of the troubleshooting I tried would fix it, so I just gave up and switched back to Safari.

Then there's the fact that we live in a Windows world. And even though all the kool-aide drinkers will tell you that Macs are super compatible and that you'll never know the difference, that simply hasn't been my experience.

My wife and I like to ski. One of the hills that we go to has a live webcam which is handy for gauging how crowded things are when we're deciding whether or not to make the trip out to the mountain. But their webcam is windows media based. My Mac has Flip4mac installed which according to someone earlier in the thread, allows your Mac to veiw any Windows media based content. If only that were true. But it ain't. When I try to view the ski cam on my Mac, I get a new tab with a Quicktime player in the middle of it that has a black screen. No matter how long I wait, I never get the video. On a Windows machine? The video loads right in the webpage and comes right up no problem. Get a mac, they just work? Sure. And I'm the Pope.

Another example. My wife and I moving. So we've been doing a ton of house hunting. That has involved lots of time spent on a few different real estate websites. On one of those sites, each property has a link that you click to show the location on a map. But on my Mac? Its a link that says 'MAP' but is really a link to some sort of database error.

Maybe I have a bad attitude but these all these little things add up and tell me that I could never survive without Windows. And if I'm going to have to use Windows, then I see no point in paying more for a Mac. I know that other people do see an advantage in it, but I just don't. My Windows machines run without any antivirus/antispyware and they don't get infections. I realize that not everyone has the ability to keep their machine from getting infected without software protection, but I don't have a problem with it. Likewise I don't have a problem with blue screens or app crashes or any of the other nightmares that kool-aide drinkers would have you believe every Windows computer suffers from. In short, my Windows computers just work. My Mac? Not so much.

 

[Fly_Unity]

I used mac's and pc's.

I had my HP windows laptop for 4 years now. I never shut it off. It runs 24/7 except when I go on trips or need to reboot it for any reason. I never put on an AntiVirus and never had a virus. Never had to defragment it or clean it up. I never had a problem with it except it occasionally freezes up. (once a month?)When it does freeze up ctrl/alt/del works 95% of the time and Im back to where I was within seconds. I hate Internet Explorer so I use Google Chrome which solves all my windows problems. Computer is just as fast as when I bought it 4 years ago. I dont download junk or stuff thats not a necessity.

I always had a time getting stuff to be supported with the Mac. Maybe Mac improved in the last 4 years. I dont know

 

[Douglas]

Mabey plug and play wasn't the right term. What I was getting at was the average Joe doesn't want to mess with a machine to get his Cessna Pilot Center kit to work. I have had more than one student who has brought back a CPC kit because "it doesn't work on my machine, and the people I called at Cessna said that Mac's weren't supported."

This is what I was getting at, software issues that need multiple OS's loaded to use some programs.

Yes, very true. There is often times a head scratching, will this run on a mac moment...or why in the world can't I launch this application, because it is built for PC.

Though with intel processors, if you really do need the program you can have the program and the computer for very few dollars now-a-days.

 

[dr650]

wow, Mac vs PC debate. I have used a PC up until 6 months ago. At first I hated the mac because I wasn't used to it. Im not a big computer guy but for just sitting down and quickly getting on the internet it works great. I've had a good experience with PC but I'll probably go with a Mac again for my next computer. Also the guys at the mac store seem to actually be somewhat knowledgable, unlike the several retailers who sell PC's. Also I don't think John or Martha wear any pants, they never show them from the waiste down...think of that next time your laughing at one of their jokes