NDB holding instruction

big_news_1

big_news_1

Well-Known Member
In a bit of a debate, and I can't find any FAA publications with the answer...


If I want to a student to hold on the east side of an NDB (inbound course 270, outbound 090), what is the proper way to give the instruction? This is how I've been doing it:

"Archer NXXXXX, hold East on the 270 bearing TO the station"

It is my impression that the name of the bearing is relative to the direction of intended travel. However, a stage check instructor at our school issued the same hold with the instruction:

"Archer NXXXXX, hold East on the 090 bearing FROM the station"


Which one is right? Can someone please cite a reference for me?
 
big_news_1 said:
Which one is right? Can someone please cite a reference for me?
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7110.65P, Air Traffic Controllers Handbook

Section 5. Route and NAVAID Description

2−5−2. NAVAID TERMS
Describe radials, arcs, courses, bearings, and quadrants of NAVAIDs as follows:

d. Nondirectional beacons. State the course to or the bearing from the radio beacon, omitting the word “degree,” followed by the words “course to” or “bearing from,” the name of the radio beacon, and the words “radio beacon.”

EXAMPLE−
“Three Four Zero bearing from Randolph Radio Beacon.”​

​
 
People still use NDB's? Ughhh....bad memories.....puts the non-precision back in non-precision approach :)
 
big_news_1 said:
Many thanks, guys. I guess that old saying rings a bell now
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Both Bearing TO and bearing FROM are used, so it's not a bad thing to use both with your student. You need to make sure that he listens carefully. Although it may not be correct phraseology with regard to ATC, there's nothing inherently wrong with either usage.
 
///AMG said:
People still use NDB's? Ughhh....bad memories.....puts the non-precision back in non-precision approach :)
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This is my weakest area and was all through my training...I really hope they all get phased out before I go for an interview with a company that has you do some NDB work. It's either really simple for people or it's rocket science for guys like me. :confused:
 
tgrayson said:
Both Bearing TO and bearing FROM are used, so it's not a bad thing to use both with your student. You need to make sure that he listens carefully. Although it may not be correct phraseology with regard to ATC, there's nothing inherently wrong with either usage.
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That's why I use the course TO, bearing FROM; to eliminate any confusion, particularly with students and to just keep it consistent with what they'll normally hear from ATC.
 
I definitely want to use standard terminology, so thank you for the reference.

To those who have commented about not understanding NDBs, I'll be the first to say there's nothing that will help you learn them faster than being required to teach it to a student. I used to fear them, and now I feel pretty comfortable doing NDB work.
 
Chief pilot for our 135 operation said an NDB Partial Panel Approach is the best way to evaluate a new hire. If they can do one of them, they totally understand the fundamentals of an approach and radials.
 
Fly_Unity said:
Chief pilot for our 135 operation said an NDB Partial Panel Approach is the best way to evaluate a new hire. If they can do one of them, they totally understand the fundamentals of an approach and radials.
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Or that they're stupid.

If I'm partial panel and not on fire or dealing with all of my fuel tanks running dry, I'm going to VFR weather, a radar approach (PAR/ASR) or an ILS, in that order.

Course TO, Bearing FROM.

-mini
 
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