Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
Yes, I see that now, my mistake.
VFR in IFR conditions
- Thread starter bLizZuE
- Start date
Yes, I see that now, my mistake.
nocturnalaviator
AI Jedi
I agree, keep your mouth shut, save your own butt, and let it be. Unless you hold a badge and position with the FAA or NTSB then you have an opinion, for now just keep your head out of trouble. Noone likes a snitch. You don't know the exact conditions, phone conversations, evidence, hell, or if the airplane was even airworthy etc.. The only number I would call is GA Secure hotline if anything was suspicious or out of the ordinary. Other than that, if VFR pilots want to go messing around in IFR then that's them. I keep my eyes outside of the cockpit anyway, sounds like an old school term now. If you're too afraid to fly because of people like that, then turn your cards in, or get a job with the FAA and DO something about it.
futurepilot1
Well-Known Member
No problem. I figured you got me mixed up with the OP.
nocturnalaviator
AI Jedi
Oh and BTW, what airport is uncontrolled?? I should hope it is! Unless you're referring to a towered vs non-towered airfield. That sounds a little better.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
:clap:
Exactly. I never understand why Pilot's get a hair up their butts over stuff that is for one, out of their control, and two, perfectly legal.
nosehair
Well-Known Member
Ahh,..a philosopher. Welcome to the board, my friend. I share your bewilderment.
I, too, long, long,..ago, ..did think we, this close community of pilots,..dare I say it, ..this brotherhood of men who shared the liberties and responsibilities of flight, would shoulder the responsibility of self-discipline, but, alas, the brotherhood was a young boy's dream, and the reality is, different people have different places to go at different times.
nocturnalaviator
AI Jedi
:rotfl:
Fly_Unity
Well-Known Member
...as long as you meet the IFR minimum altitude.
Its done among some of the Wyoming/Montana pilots I know, however only in airspace where Golf goes up to 14,500.
In other parts of the US, Its extremely hard to find Golf that goes above 1200.
Just 2 days back I had a controller Cancel IFR on me and tell me I had to go VFR, I told him unable because I was IMC, He responded that I was in uncontrolled airspace and he would give me another clearance in 50 miles upon reaching E airspace. Before this I never had a controller actually cancel IFR on me in G airspace, they normally say " ATC advises N1234 fly suggested heading of xxx, THEN upon entering controlled airspace cleared to xxxx as filed" etc.
bLizZuE
Calling for engine starts en français
I'm not even sure where to begin.
Clearly this thread is opinion based, and if your mother forgot to teach you that everyone is entitled to an opinion, I'm very sorry. It seems to be a valuable life lesson you should revisit.
My perspective only allowed so much information to be absorbed, as such perhaps I should have included a disclaimer on the original post. However, no one can predict a persons interpretation of words. I'm sorry if I offended you with my opinion, and I'm sorry if you think I tried to snitch on some perfectly well meaning instrument rated pilots. I'm not trying to be airplane police, I'm trying to understand. Just because I can legally do something, doesn't always mean I should. I'm going above and beyond the 'what' to try and understand the 'why'. Again, apparently that's too much.
I made this thread to share an example of what from my viewpoint seemed to be bad decision making and poor judgement. It IS entirely likely that everything they did, and that every pilot that arrived or departed that day was perfectly legal and safe. However I offered an opinion on something I thought to be dangerous and I felt I wanted to share my opinion. Only to find a ravenous pack of wolves ready to pounce and throw me in the corner for being a 'snitch' and apparently ignorant of the rules.
Clearly this thread is opinion based, and if your mother forgot to teach you that everyone is entitled to an opinion, I'm very sorry. It seems to be a valuable life lesson you should revisit.
My perspective only allowed so much information to be absorbed, as such perhaps I should have included a disclaimer on the original post. However, no one can predict a persons interpretation of words. I'm sorry if I offended you with my opinion, and I'm sorry if you think I tried to snitch on some perfectly well meaning instrument rated pilots. I'm not trying to be airplane police, I'm trying to understand. Just because I can legally do something, doesn't always mean I should. I'm going above and beyond the 'what' to try and understand the 'why'. Again, apparently that's too much.
I made this thread to share an example of what from my viewpoint seemed to be bad decision making and poor judgement. It IS entirely likely that everything they did, and that every pilot that arrived or departed that day was perfectly legal and safe. However I offered an opinion on something I thought to be dangerous and I felt I wanted to share my opinion. Only to find a ravenous pack of wolves ready to pounce and throw me in the corner for being a 'snitch' and apparently ignorant of the rules.
Slugger
Well-Known Member
I don't consider people trying to keep themselves and others safe snitches. Though they may have been IFR, it really sounds like they weren't and they could have been endangering other pilots out there in the soup. I'm no pro, but I don't see the problem with questioning something that may cause harm to yourself and/or others.
ChristheCFII
Well-Known Member
To the OP,
Not trying to be rude, just curious. Did you ever consider the danger of taking off with a 100-150' ceiling in a single engine training aircraft? I'm just guessing that's what you were flying, sorry if I'm wrong. You can take off in 0/0 if you want to, but I wouldn't risk it. Even if I'm part 91, I make sure I have the mins for the approach before I depart. Anyone else?
Not trying to be rude, just curious. Did you ever consider the danger of taking off with a 100-150' ceiling in a single engine training aircraft? I'm just guessing that's what you were flying, sorry if I'm wrong. You can take off in 0/0 if you want to, but I wouldn't risk it. Even if I'm part 91, I make sure I have the mins for the approach before I depart. Anyone else?
Patrick
Well-Known Member
Even in a twin, even part 91, I use the mins for whatever approach I have back into the airport as my takeoff mins.
Also, on the original topic here, while perhaps legal, doesn't necessarily make it smart.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
Good for you. One must always make one's own decision about what is smart.
No, it doesn't. One's opinion on the matter doesn't make it stupid, either. But we're talking past each other (again), aren't we? MYOFB. I have no quarrel with those who only fly when it's CAVU; In point of fact, I admire their discretion. But I for damn sure demand the same courtesy in return. To wit, don't drop a dime because someone isn't adhering to your own personal minimums and this somehow leads you to believe that some law or another must be being violated. The world would be a much better place if everyone stopped worrying about what everyone is doing and concentrated on doing the right things for and by themselves.
No problem with the original post, it's indeed a good observation of what someone else might be doing and how it would appear.
My problem is with the wannabe-cops here who want to take down tail numbers and report any little thing they perceive to be wrong (again, not the OP). That, to me, is crap.
To those, I say do your own job and keep yourself legal.
My problem is with the wannabe-cops here who want to take down tail numbers and report any little thing they perceive to be wrong (again, not the OP). That, to me, is crap.
To those, I say do your own job and keep yourself legal.
vikingair
Well-Known Member
I almost don't even know what to say but since its apparent some other posters don't invest much thought into their replies either I won't let that stop me.
You can debate the nuances of "requested", "recommended" "required" until you're retarded. Same goes for that last refuge of the aviation scoundrel .."the AIM is only advisory, not regulation". Do me a favor though...do it on the ground over a beer. When its time to fly, don't be one of those guys who do it just because nothing says you can't.
I don't care if you fly the X-15, an A380 or a beat up mule with wings ....you do the exact same thing I do..that's keep the airplane flying to the destination and not break anything. You don't drop gold dubloons in the lav and if they haven't named an arrival or airport terminal after you or given you a solid gold cert to go with your 12 stripes then I see no reason to act so holier than thou.
Was this class G? The OP didn't say. But obviously it wasn't some remote base in the tundra that sees a few operations a week from the same three pilots who are all at least on the same freq. Most of those don't even have an IAP. This one did so my bet is E dropped to 700. Some even go to the ground! Yeah..you can head off into G without a clearance...I certainly hope you can get one or get clear before 701 feet where I am coming down the pipe self reporting on CTAF. I really should have gotten the secret handshake and special magic frequency you get your clearance from.
The "Its (possibly) legal to take off in G.." argument pales in comparison to the
"when your flight meets an opposing flight with a closure rate of 180 knots all those people you didn't want in your business like the NTSB and FAA..well they will be" argument. They seems to agree...
/http://www.ntsb.gov/alj/O_n_O/docs/AVIATION/3935.PDF
Assuming they were by the book (after all, as pilots we like to presume that others sharing our airspace are as conscious of safety, good ops practices, regs as we are) then case closed. We all walk away knowing a little bit more than we did when we got up. As I read it the OP wasn't hell bent for leather to nail anyone to the door of the FSDO. He found it curious that he didn't pick up any indication they were doing so and seemed interested in the aspects of such an op that would make it safe and legal. He even added a few words of generally accepted wisdom for new and old alike.
Of course leave it to this rag tag group to go off half cocked like an abusive girlfriend and start assigning the "snitch, rat, informant, witch hunter" tag. Throw in some blather about being comfortable at 100 feet in 1 mile vis at 90 knots, sprinkle on some "I do it in ice inverted drinking Coke Original" and now were getting somewhere.
Don't play FAA but also don't abdicate your right to question if something seems unsafe.
You can debate the nuances of "requested", "recommended" "required" until you're retarded. Same goes for that last refuge of the aviation scoundrel .."the AIM is only advisory, not regulation". Do me a favor though...do it on the ground over a beer. When its time to fly, don't be one of those guys who do it just because nothing says you can't.
I don't care if you fly the X-15, an A380 or a beat up mule with wings ....you do the exact same thing I do..that's keep the airplane flying to the destination and not break anything. You don't drop gold dubloons in the lav and if they haven't named an arrival or airport terminal after you or given you a solid gold cert to go with your 12 stripes then I see no reason to act so holier than thou.
Was this class G? The OP didn't say. But obviously it wasn't some remote base in the tundra that sees a few operations a week from the same three pilots who are all at least on the same freq. Most of those don't even have an IAP. This one did so my bet is E dropped to 700. Some even go to the ground! Yeah..you can head off into G without a clearance...I certainly hope you can get one or get clear before 701 feet where I am coming down the pipe self reporting on CTAF. I really should have gotten the secret handshake and special magic frequency you get your clearance from.
The "Its (possibly) legal to take off in G.." argument pales in comparison to the
"when your flight meets an opposing flight with a closure rate of 180 knots all those people you didn't want in your business like the NTSB and FAA..well they will be" argument. They seems to agree...
/http://www.ntsb.gov/alj/O_n_O/docs/AVIATION/3935.PDF
Assuming they were by the book (after all, as pilots we like to presume that others sharing our airspace are as conscious of safety, good ops practices, regs as we are) then case closed. We all walk away knowing a little bit more than we did when we got up. As I read it the OP wasn't hell bent for leather to nail anyone to the door of the FSDO. He found it curious that he didn't pick up any indication they were doing so and seemed interested in the aspects of such an op that would make it safe and legal. He even added a few words of generally accepted wisdom for new and old alike.
Of course leave it to this rag tag group to go off half cocked like an abusive girlfriend and start assigning the "snitch, rat, informant, witch hunter" tag. Throw in some blather about being comfortable at 100 feet in 1 mile vis at 90 knots, sprinkle on some "I do it in ice inverted drinking Coke Original" and now were getting somewhere.
certainly is a great response to a safety of flight issue. Here, feel free to borrow my hood and ask Doug to reset your post count to zero and start again. I think most of us do mind our own business but we still watch out for each other and occasionally someone sticks their business in our face. Many of us are here to learn from your experience and share ours. If all that really boils down is this then someones been cheated.
Don't play FAA but also don't abdicate your right to question if something seems unsafe.
Just an observation: RCOs can be unreliable. When departing from an uncontrolled field with an RCO I will usually ask around the FBO if there is a phone number for the local controlling agency and I will call them directly on my cell phone on the way out to the runway and get a clearance from them that way. If that doesn't work I will consider calling Flight Service, but would usually at least TRY the RCO first.
I wouldn't be too quick to judge whether or not someone else actually has an IFR clearance or not.
I wouldn't be too quick to judge whether or not someone else actually has an IFR clearance or not.