Am I the only one...

I have seen people blow through the hold short line once tower calls them up. Sad really. Like you mini until I hear the magic words I don't cross.
 
I always wait until I hear that I'm cleared and normally I wait until the readback is done and we can get moving on the checklist..
Click to expand...
Why not?

I agree don't cross the line until you're cleared, however when time=money, and you're no longer building time; those seconds can make a difference, probably not to the bottom line but spacing for final, making room behind you etc...

I've taught, no, still teach: Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. Still applies when taxiing.
 
dhc2tacksby said:
Why not?

I agree don't cross the line until you're cleared, however when time=money, and you're no longer building time; those seconds can make a difference, probably not to the bottom line but spacing for final, making room behind you etc...
Click to expand...


Your absolutely right, time does equal money. And the slower I go, the more money I make. No need to go charging across the hold short line like some freshman frat boy after his first kegger.


As far as spacing, don't you think the spacing gets mucked up when someone has to go around because taxi fast knucklehead went prematurely over the line? Of course, that still helps the block or better guys.
 
Cptnchia said:
As far as spacing, don't you think the spacing gets mucked up when someone has to go around because taxi fast knucklehead went prematurely over the line? Of course, that still helps the block or better guys.
Click to expand...

Wheres the argument? I clearly stated, don't cross until your cleared.
 
dhc2tacksby said:
Why not?

I agree don't cross the line until you're cleared, however when time=money, and you're no longer building time; those seconds can make a difference, probably not to the bottom line but spacing for final, making room behind you etc...

I've taught, no, still teach: Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. Still applies when taxiing.
Click to expand...

I agree....

Once you hear the words come through your headset, unless they make no sense to you, you can accomplish the action during the readback. When I training for the instrument rating, I was constantly told, when they tell you to turn, or climb, or descend, etc., if the instruction makes sense to you and there's no conflict or question, initiate action at the point they give it to you and readback as you're doing the action. Otherwise, they've told you to turn to a heading, and you spend an additional x amount of seconds traveling in a direction you are now no longer cleared to go, you'll have to correct from there.
 
Never seen anyone do this (if I understand the OP correctly). Sounds pretty cut and dry to me......I always prepare to hold short, even if I call for T/O on the roll. You aren't cleared to cross the hold short until you get a pos and hold or t/o clearance.
 
I don't know Mini...some people just suck. I also am paranoid about not crossing the line until I hear the magic words.
 
You would figure ATC would be on top of anything that looks like assuming when it comes to runway safety. If I encountered a situation where a controller gave me a hard time about timeliness after I followed their directions to a "T", promptly, I would definitely follow up on that. Runway safety should never be a guessing game.

Personally, if I was flying with someone who jumped the gun with an excuse like the one mentioned in the OP, I would start with a tactful "intervention". Wording my objection to behavior in the form of a question has had the best results, although it doesn't always work when the other is convinced they are right. "Don't you think we're jumping the gun by taxiing across the line before the controller clears us?" If that doesn't work, I look up the regs and reference them in tactful way. "I'm confused (in a non-sarcastic tone), my interpretation of 91.123 is that we have to comply with ATC clearances. I understand that an impending clearance is expected shortly, but don't you think we're still on hold short clearance until they officially give us a new one?" "Also, in the AIM 4-4-10 it says: When air traffic clearance has been obtained under either visual or instrument flight rules, the pilot-in-command of the aircraft shall not deviate from the provisions thereof unless an amended clearance is obtained...ATC in certain situations, will include the word "IMMEDIATELLY"...

Right there in the AIM, they have a plan for when things need to move faster. If none of that stuff works and I feel that the other crewmember is out of their mind and needs word from the rest of the villiage, I will contact Professional Standards. I know there are some folks that will object and say this isn't worth the effort, but I don't want to get killed or violated over things like this. All it takes is one controller to screw up and at best, they are going to cover their butt, pull the tapes and say "look, they crossed the line and I never did clear them." No thanks!
 
the way the faa is all hot over runway incursions there is no reason to take a chance of having one! Even pulling up to do a runup. I fly with a couple guys who insist on pulling right up to the hold short line and then doing the run-up. any forward movement would put them over the line. Exiting the runway too, I have flown with people who think as soon as their butt crosses the line they are clear and stop to call ground...your not clear until the entire aircraft is over the line.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top