Bets on when regionals will fly 737s in the USA?
- Thread starter A-300F4-622R
- Start date
I stand corrected - thank you!
Screaming_Emu
Well-Known Member
That doesn't REALLY count as those are small airlines flying on their own (at first), not necessarily regional airlines.
The Piedmont now is hardly the same thing that it used to be.
A-300F4-622R
Well-Known Member
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
A-300F4-622R
Well-Known Member
Do you think RAH will be the first regional airline to fly what has historically been mainline equipment (A320) with their purchase of Frontier?
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
Answer the question with a question?
You asked a question at the beginning of the thread, I gave you my answer.
Now for your answer.... anytime:
A-300F4-622R
Well-Known Member
I'd love to fly a Shorts. The IPA went to UPS, during last contract negotiations, with an offer of a lower pay rate to fly 737 size freighters. UPS turned the offer down saying that they will never purchase another narrow body aircraft and that the lower pay rate was not needed.
So.... We have MANAGEMENT not wanting a lower pay scale in order to fly smaller equipment.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
Perfect. Thank you.
As far as RAH.... I can't predict the future... but it is entirely possible that the wages may deflate on that aircraft. However, what we can hope is that RAH loses contracts (and no offense to the RAH pilots) to their mainline partners and is forced to compete on its own footing. I believe that if they want to compete with mainline, they'll eventually have to get their wages up.
There's another fairly well paying mainline, in fact two off the top of my head, that undercut the industry for years...
SWA and Fedex....
It seems to be a trend, at least with startups, to pay depressed wages, to get the companies a solid footing before promising too much.
My job at a regional is subject to the whim of management and labor at the major. I'm sure, if there's money to be made, and saved, that my company can exist with smaller aircraft as well as bigger. I can't do anything about mainline labor - they need to prove that the expense provided by paying for in house services is evident in customer satisfaction.
FlyChicaga
Vintage Restoration
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
Where do people find the time to make these things?:rotfl:
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
They're usually already made for us. Except for some of my internet patriot images.
As far as the one above posted, more pics of the bartender ladies.
A-300F4-622R
Well-Known Member
You people wonder why so few experienced pilots want to participate in this forum. Attack the poster for asking pointed questions. You think if you make them go away all will be alright.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Will you write a perspective article so the young whippersnappers can follow in your footsteps towards the attainment of the brass ring at UPS?
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
We've got plenty of experienced, respectful posters.
I've always been taught to respect your elders. I find it hard to give that respect when it appears, on the surface, that said elder is cutting the young whippersnapper down, for no reason.
Again, we all were under the impression, from you, that you came here because of the bickering of other forums. We try to get and give opinions, and facts, without stepping on peoples' toes, because it's unnecessary. If someone tells me that the green light in U.S. traffic lights is the top one, one shouldn't tell them "you're an <insert insult="" here="">< insert insult here >, it's on the bottom." It would be more prudent to present facts and evidence, and state "the green light is on the bottom on the majority of lights."
I'll admit this is perhaps a weak example, and that I'm guilty of not providing an un-insulting posts (if you could see my infractions), but I strive to not be vitriolic or unnecessarily baiting in my writing.
The reason, in my opinion, that you're getting the reaction on this post, is because we've gone down this avenue before.... "do you think regional will undercut the majors blah blah"...... this just leads to infighting among regional guys....
I'm not saying we're not culpable as a group, but we are attempting to rectify the situation with collective efforts such as the "Fee For Departure Committee". As a major pilot, I implore someone as knowledgeable and experienced as yourself not to lay the blame at the feet of the people receiving the flying from your company. Who gave away the flying? What can be done to recover it? We've got scope at the regional in an attempt to prevent "outsourcing" of the "outsource"...
And finally, I would like to point out that I learn a lot from the experienced guys here. There are a select few that I can count on when I see their "handle" in a thread, I'll be getting good information. I've got a long ways to go before I'm even considered knowledgeable about pretty much anything, so I do my best to sit back and "listen" or read what's written.
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Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
Comparing UPS feed to regionals seems faintly ludicrous. You can have "biggest": A Shorts lumbering along getting passed by trucks. Or you can have "fastest": A metro zipping along at 260 with a few thousand pounds in the back. Neither is exactly an EMB-190.
And seriously, man up a little. Yes, A300 is intentionally irritating you with the manner in which he asks the questions. Because you make it so easy. It doesn't make the questions worthless...it does look like this is where we're headed. I don't think he's trying to complain it away, since as someone pointed out above he's got his gold plated rolex on layaway and can easily be just another moustache throwing everyone else to the wolves when it's contract time. No dog in the fight.
Has it occurred to you that maybe he's trying to get you to think a little about what part YOU (or I) play in this? Or, I dunno, maybe he's just another mean old man who doesn't respect The Uniform.
And seriously, man up a little. Yes, A300 is intentionally irritating you with the manner in which he asks the questions. Because you make it so easy. It doesn't make the questions worthless...it does look like this is where we're headed. I don't think he's trying to complain it away, since as someone pointed out above he's got his gold plated rolex on layaway and can easily be just another moustache throwing everyone else to the wolves when it's contract time. No dog in the fight.
Has it occurred to you that maybe he's trying to get you to think a little about what part YOU (or I) play in this? Or, I dunno, maybe he's just another mean old man who doesn't respect The Uniform.
A-300F4-622R
Well-Known Member
Thanks Boris. When we hire again, please contact me ASAP. As for the rest of you, all I asked was since Jazz is apparently going to fly 737s, do you think that will happen here in the US? and who do you think it will be?
Speculate people.
Speculate people.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
I was merely pointing out that passenger carriers aren't the only 121 operators who have "feed". It all starts off slow. I'd love to be in a segment of the industry where we're not whipsawed.
I'm not upset or perturbed by the question. I like questions that make us think. I even provided an answer. I am merely wondering, what makes the cargo segment safe? Is it the niche, or the pilot group? And I was wondering, with all that has been done, are cargo pilots prepared to stand their ground? And, what are major pilots doing to ensure that the downward spiral does not continue.
I feel that you guys are implying that my best course of action to right the industry is for me, and my fellow regional pilots, to resign. I respectfully disagree with that. We will do what we can to drive the wages up here, and hopefully flying back to the majors. But, the catalyst, again in my opinion, needs to be major airline pilots wanting all aircraft flown under one banner.
If I could get hired by, for example, Delta mainline, to fly a SAAB, you're dang right I'd take that job.
I did speculate! All I can do is hope we've learned (finally) from our mistakes. In addition, I hope that guys like you have seen the mistakes of your passenger-carrying brethren and won't give an inch, because management will take a mile.
Honestly, I do not see the 737 becoming a regional aircraft, unless airlines order it with < 100 seats. That is currently the "limit", which I'm hoping that mainline scope will slowly reduce.
Finally, Boris and A-300.... kumbaya!
chris
Well-Known Member
This hasn't been confirmed yet, so Im not sure Jazz pilots will in fact be flying 737s.
*If* we get this contract, the flying will be done as charters/vacation packages, the planes will not be used to do any flying under our current CPA with Air Canada. Our CPA with AC scopes us to 75 seats maximum. All our flying under the CPA is dictated by AC, so if we were to secure this contract, AC would obviously be ok with it. Our managers would never sign a contract to fly 5 737s if it in any way would somehow hurt our relationship with Air Canada since close to 100% of our flying is for AC.
Just a few years ago, Jazz was 100% owned by the AC family. Right now we are technically considered a separate company. For this reason, our managers have been trying to secure non-CPA contract flying (that would still be considered legal under the current CPA contract) that would diversify our operations.
Im not sure what the payscale would be like if we get this contract either. Currently Jazz's payscale is based on years of service (i.e. doesn't matter whether you fly the Dash or RJ). But I can't see the pilot group allowing the same payscale to fly 737s. Our pay is low enough (believe it or not, 15 years ago the starting salary at Air Ontario to fly Dash 8s was almost $33000. Today its $37,000.). We are currently under negotiations for our pilot contract, so hopefully these pay issues will be addressed.
*If* we get this contract, the flying will be done as charters/vacation packages, the planes will not be used to do any flying under our current CPA with Air Canada. Our CPA with AC scopes us to 75 seats maximum. All our flying under the CPA is dictated by AC, so if we were to secure this contract, AC would obviously be ok with it. Our managers would never sign a contract to fly 5 737s if it in any way would somehow hurt our relationship with Air Canada since close to 100% of our flying is for AC.
Just a few years ago, Jazz was 100% owned by the AC family. Right now we are technically considered a separate company. For this reason, our managers have been trying to secure non-CPA contract flying (that would still be considered legal under the current CPA contract) that would diversify our operations.
Im not sure what the payscale would be like if we get this contract either. Currently Jazz's payscale is based on years of service (i.e. doesn't matter whether you fly the Dash or RJ). But I can't see the pilot group allowing the same payscale to fly 737s. Our pay is low enough (believe it or not, 15 years ago the starting salary at Air Ontario to fly Dash 8s was almost $33000. Today its $37,000.). We are currently under negotiations for our pilot contract, so hopefully these pay issues will be addressed.
PeanuckleCRJ
Poodle Wrangler
As far as the original question- the legacies now have an entire generation that has been screwed by "scope creep." Their captain seats are being flown for 50 or 60 dollars an hour at outsourced companies.
The mindset now is "I've given for decades... time for payback."
The mindset now is "I've given for decades... time for payback."