Another Skywest ALPA Drive

mrivc211 said:
I understand your point. While I do agree, my standpoint is, up to this point, they have not whipsawed our two groups. And keep in mind, we've been together now for about 3 years. I know you're thinking that it doesn't mean they won't do it in the future, and I agree.

Two points I'll make,

One being when ASA negotiated their new contract, there were a few issues that they won that brought them up to SKYW level, which goes contrary to the whipsaw theory.

Also, why couldn't the two groups negotiate as one, without merging?
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I know you are whipsmart, and you have your poop together, and you get mad points for starting an organizing drive. So I'll cut to the chase.

Go back through airline history and point to one organization that has owned more than one carrier that didn't have a common list and contract, and find one that wasn't used in a whipsaw.

Companies I think of off the top of my head:

Trans-States Holdings: TSA and UFS, then TSA and GoJets

Texas Air: Continental and Eastern

Any major with contract and wholly-owned feed - both between the mainline and feeder and in between the feeders

WN: Bought Morris Air, merged; good deal for all Bought part of ATA, not merged; hungry ATA pilots

Companies that 2 airlines 2 lists work:

Horizon/Alaska

Then again, not saying your organization (SkyW Holdings) can't be an exception, but I doubt it. The regional market is about to go back to gun fighting.
 
Polar742 said:
Then again, not saying your organization (SkyW Holdings) can't be an exception, but I doubt it. The regional market is about to go back to gun fighting.
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Agree. It's pretty easy not to whipsaw two groups against each other when there aren't any RFPs out there to do so with. The United flying was sort of a no-brainer wiht ASA losing airframes, but I'm sure you'll find several (if not more) Skywest pilots that think they should have gotten that flying over ASA. Those are the chinks in the armor that will cause the "two lists, two contracts" to crumble. In order to be successful, the pilot group needs to be united in their fight with management. We were united here up until it turned into senior vs junior guys over the bonus structure. Even a couple of months after we voted the TA down crew rooms get a little edgy. It's not an environment I like or desire. Having the two lists together would create a much better launching point for the pilot group.

Just because management hasn't done it up until now doesn't mean they won't do it in the future. When these current RFPs start expiring, management is gonna do what they are paid to do: do whatever they can to get the RFP awarded. If that means pitting Skywest against Skyeast, they'll do it in a heartbeat.
 
FlyChicaga said:
Why are you against the merger?
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Not really answering for him but I'd say for bases.

Plenty of senior pilots (senior to him anyways) at ASA that would love west coast bases.

If the pilots of SkyWest are told during the next drive that there will be a merger, I guarantee there will be less yes votes than the last drive. Simple "Happy with what I have and I don't want to share."

This is easy stuff people.
 
Please don't shoot me. But some people apply and don't apply to certain companies based on an awareness of base locations being in geographical proximities to where they might want to live or have simple commutes to.
 
Hootie said:
Please don't shoot me. But some people apply and don't apply to certain companies based on an awareness of base locations being in geographical proximities to where they might want to live or have simple commutes to.
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This makes sense to me. I did not accept a job at Mesa (and others like Key Lime) because I did not want to work for someone I do not respect.
 
Hootie said:
Please don't shoot me. But some people apply and don't apply to certain companies based on an awareness of base locations being in geographical proximities to where they might want to live or have simple commutes to.
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That's true, but bases are apt to open and close on a whim. Choosing a job based solely on where you're gonna be based could have some bad drawbacks. Comair's closed bases recently. Colgan and Mesa were changing them like they were on a roulette wheel. Honestly, I'm not 100% sure our MSP base is so secure. Bases might not close, but they shrink and grow, so even then you might be dealing with multiple displacements. Look at Eagle.
 
Bumblebee said:
This makes sense to me. I did not accept a job at Mesa (and others like Key Lime) because I did not want to work for someone I do not respect.
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Agreed. I could have walked to a Mesa interview from my house, if my self worth happened to be that low.
 
kellwolf said:
That's true, but bases are apt to open and close on a whim. Choosing a job based solely on where you're gonna be based could have some bad drawbacks. Comair's closed bases recently. Colgan and Mesa were changing them like they were on a roulette wheel. Honestly, I'm not 100% sure our MSP base is so secure. Bases might not close, but they shrink and grow, so even then you might be dealing with multiple displacements. Look at Eagle.
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That is why I specifically chose the words "geographical proximities" to where more "simple commutes" are possible.
 
ASA's contract was signed at the perfect time for them. I find it interesting that you don't see the obvious positioning Skywest Airlines is being put in as the undercut carrier for the whipsaw... stuff will keep getting "chipped away" from Skywest Airlines, since you have no collective bargaining agreement.

You say that ASA's contract "brought them up" to SKYW level? Besides the fact that I think it is superior in everyway (especially in the fact that it is actually a collective bargaining agreement that can't be changed unilaterally.) I also look at what Skywest is doing -- you've enumerated them in this thread (getting rid of PPO, etc cost saving measures) -- and see Skywest CORP positioning Skywest Airlines as the low-cost/"undercut" threat for whipsaw against ASA to get back some of the things they gave away when they couldn't keep people employed, not the other way around.
 
Hootie said:
That is why I specifically chose the words "geographical proximities" to where more "simple commutes" are possible.
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Even then, it would have to be a "simple commute" to several bases. From what I hear, even the simple commutes ain't so simple anymore......
 
kellwolf said:
Even then, it would have to be a "simple commute" to several bases. From what I hear, even the simple commutes ain't so simple anymore......
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I used to have nearly 30 options per day between DEN-ORD. Now? Half that. Good times :)
 
For me its not so much the commute, but rather the ASA guys going after a DOH integration. I can easily drive to LAX, PSP, or hop on WN, UAL,AA,or virgin to get to SFO, or SKYW to FAT, SLC, or DEN, etc.
 
The story I've heard is the ALPA mucky mucks aren't too interested in Skywest right now. There are some way more worthwhile operations out there.
 
BobDDuck said:
The story I've heard is the ALPA mucky mucks aren't too interested in Skywest right now. There are some way more worthwhile operations out there.
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Which is unfortunate. But, that position is due to the unsuccessful drives of the past.

Who knows what the future holds. It worked for Colgan, but then again Colgan had a significant paradigm shift between the two votes.

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Will the erosion of QOL benefits be enough of a shift?
 
BobDDuck said:
The story I've heard is the ALPA mucky mucks aren't too interested in Skywest right now.
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With respect, have you been in direct contact with ALPA folks? This isn't correct.

There are some way more worthwhile operations out there.
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Surprising quote coming from the likes of yourself, I thought you stayed out of such mud slinging. This kind of attitude is not helpful in the least.
 
BobDDuck said:
The story I've heard is the ALPA mucky mucks aren't too interested in Skywest right now. There are some way more worthwhile operations out there.
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I wouldn't go that far. It's true that this isn't exactly on the top of heap right now, but that's mainly because the SkyWest pilots haven't put together a big Organizing Committee and demonstrated a functioning structure yet. Once that's done, it may change. We have other organizing drives that are in far more advanced stages, including results on a vote this Thursday, so those are on the front burner.
 
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