Aero_Engineer
Well-Known Member
That is just awesome man, Congrats. The 727 sure does look like a sweet bird to fly.
Typed in the B-727
- Thread starter Bandit_Driver
- Start date
Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
IGM! I love it!
Orange Anchor
New Member
9 light trip!
We flew our -15s up to 191,000 as I remember but it was Sterling that flew the REAL heavy 727s at 210,000lbs. NO thanks. I don't remember landing up near the 161,000lbs max but we did tanker a fair amount of fuel when prices started climbing.
What was fun (and I know we shouldn't use that term for pax) but half spoilers. That gave a very QUICK roll rate.
We also had another famous character, Elmo, who always said, "You can never be too high in a 727." Elmo eventually had to go around at ROA one night. Too high.
I ran into Elmo one night on a layover in DCA. We were at the bar and Elmo orders a Chivas. The bar-wench brings him his drink and Elmo gives her a $50 and said, "Make sure this glass never gets more than half empty."
Interesting times...
We flew our -15s up to 191,000 as I remember but it was Sterling that flew the REAL heavy 727s at 210,000lbs. NO thanks. I don't remember landing up near the 161,000lbs max but we did tanker a fair amount of fuel when prices started climbing.
What was fun (and I know we shouldn't use that term for pax) but half spoilers. That gave a very QUICK roll rate.
We also had another famous character, Elmo, who always said, "You can never be too high in a 727." Elmo eventually had to go around at ROA one night. Too high.
I ran into Elmo one night on a layover in DCA. We were at the bar and Elmo orders a Chivas. The bar-wench brings him his drink and Elmo gives her a $50 and said, "Make sure this glass never gets more than half empty."
Interesting times...
sounds like there's some stories in the woodwork...
Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
nice pics - how long had it sat - how long did they have to run the air con for to get the temp to normal / musty aircraft smell out?
Do they have plans to fly more out?
Alex.
Who knows, the company doesn't tell us line pilots their plans. We are just told to go to xyz and pick up plane after they have bought one. The plane wasn't sitting long and you don't get the musty smell in the desert boneyards. The air is too dry and the planes are maintained quite well in storages. They are always going in for inspections and being run when in storage.
9 light Trips are fun. I had fun with the Standby power approach.
T Trip
Inverted L trip
etc
We definately have a lot of fun on our birds two and have some great guys working for us. It is always fun to show the new FO's the high performance mode. 1/2 spoilers can get interesting if you don't expect it.
Our biggest birds have MTOW approaching 195K and 164K MLDG.
Do you still remember the saying to remember the 5 electrical faults? and the one for which fuel pumps are on what bus?
I'd write them here but I profanity filter would kick in...
Orange Anchor
New Member
It has been a long time since I was ousted from the 727.. merger. But no.. can't remember the saying but I do remember there was a sequence and logic on the fuel panel. Something about across the fuel panel 1AC, 3AC, 2AC, ESS, 1AC, ESS, 2 AC, 3AC.
Over and under volts tripped the generator breakers
Excitation tripped bus tie then Gen Relay and Field Relay
Differential fault tripped Firld Relay
There was more. Some think the 727 systems are antiquated but the truth is it was a simple panel where you could drill down to the basic fault. Manual, yes. Automated, no. Antiquated. No.
For new engineers, we would often pull ALL the light covers and place them neatly on the desk so s/he could replace them.
Again, a different time. I was flying the 737-200 out of ORF when I got my bid on the 727. I was commuting from ATL and Eastern served that route along with us. I get on an Eastern 727 and the crew and I talk about what I am flying and I mention my bid on the 727. The Eastern Capt kicks the F/O out of the seat and I fly the airplane to ATL. Different times.
EatSleepFly
Well-Known Member
Congrats, Bandit! :beer:
I was born too late. Great stories, OA. Feel free to keep 'em coming!
I was born too late. Great stories, OA. Feel free to keep 'em coming!
Orange Anchor
New Member
Congrats, Bandit! :beer:
I was born too late. Great stories, OA. Feel free to keep 'em coming!
Last trip out of CLT to ATL on a 727 and the cabin is slammed. "Capt, I need a ride to ATL if possible..." The 727 had 2 jumpseats. We still had a base in ATL at that time and just so happens our Chief Pilot meets the airplane. We have maybe 7 guys in the cockpit..NOT including the crew. Phil, the CP, is there with his glasses down on his nose as always and wagging his finger. As we deplane, "Boys.. boys... this ain't gonna sell."
But at least the cockpit of the 727 was larger than the cargo space in the back of the YS-11 which I also rode in once or twice when the J/S was taken and the cabin was full.
Lots of memorable stories.. one of our big shots missed Bermuda futzing around with the LORAN. Radio problems compounded the problem and they were about 100nm EAST of Bermuda before they solved the problem.
Russell again.. in the sim with Ray, one of our Napolean check airmen. Ray is loading Russell up with compound problems and Russell, who spoke with a real nasal accent said, "Freeze it." Ray says, "What?" Russell says, "Freeze it!" Ray freezes the sim (it was before motion) and Russell gets out of the seat. Ray figures Russell is just going to take a break. Again 10 minutes.. 15 minutes.. Ray goes to look for Ray. NO Ray. Short version. Ray has gone home.
CP calls him up the next day and asks what the hell is going on. Russell, who knew the contract backwards and forwards says, "I don't have to put up with that **** for a check ride. You get me another instructor and I will be on the next plane." Russell gets maybe a week off, gets another check airman and passes the ride.
Different times...
Orange Anchor
New Member
Man I sure do miss Piedmont!Dedicated employees with an employee friendly management. Excellant customer service too!
Reportedly it was not uncommon for 'problems' (union or FAA) to get solved at the local bar in INT. And another example was when PI had a chance to get a bunch of 737-200s. The contract said no training after midnight. The company said that to get the airplanes they would have to train 24/7. The company and pilots agreed to a side letter with an expiration date. No pushing. No shoving. Just working together.
Probably the best and most well known PI story which is true is when Capt Brown lost an airplane in a card game. He reportedly tossed in the airworthiness certificate to cover a bet. He lost and had to call the VP Ops to wire him the money. It came out of Jim's account but still..
Another of Jim's great stories was on a weekend charter to Reno, Jim asked the F/O who would also later be (in)famous if he thought he could make a little money at the tables in Vegas. Bernie said yes so Jim, Bernie and the FAs cranked up the 737-200, took it to Vegas and spent the weekend in Vegas. They took their winnings, paid for the fuel and returned to Reno to finish the charter.
What are you talking about OA? You worked together with management? That's EVIL!!!
Don't let the Airline Pilot forum section here on JC hear that.....
Orange Anchor
New Member
What are you talking about OA? You worked together with management? That's EVIL!!!
Don't let the Airline Pilot forum section here on JC hear that.....
When I showed up on Jul5th for indoc, we were in a small room in the back of a hangar. On the desk was our wings, a hat and a brand new Jepp flt kit with our seniority number on it. Within a few days we were invited to lunch with the President, Mr. Davis, who thanked US for joining the company.
As you can see from the posts, we had our mavericks but over all, everyone took care of everyone. When it came time for me to upgrade, we were getting the guys from BI, many who were VERY experienced aviators. I flew with one fellow frequently, probably 10yrs older than me, who had been a 727 Capt when BI folded, had been a chief pilot for a long time and was one of THE best copilots I ever flew with even though I was the inexperienced one. Marine, F-8 driver and 'squared away' always. On the 727, I had a guy on the panel who had been the BI Concorde check airman.
Yes, we had the "Killer Bs" (4 Capt whose last name began with B) and we had two Georges who were FAMOUS, one for falling out of a 737 not once but twice and the other for answering any question with, "what does the G******** book say???" Always.
And then there was the Admiral who refused to use the landing lights at night and replied, "Didn't have 'em on the Intruder coming aboard the boat at night.. don't need 'em on a 9,000ft runway."
But it was a great time.
I love it! Nice!
So (in your opinion) what the hell happened in between what you described vis-a-vis management/union relations being fairly good in your time; and the relations now between the same that the guys in the Airline Pilot section here on JC are constantly complaining/griping about?
Orange Anchor
New Member
We should probably start a new thread for that response. But first, PI was a different horse. We were a 'family' and I arrived at PI when it began its growth. When I joined we had the YS-11As, 727-200s and a few 727-100s as I remember. I can't remember my original number but I do remember after the mergers I never made it back to that number.
But the economics changed. Management changed. The pilots changed. The passengers changed. The employees changed. And the mergers dramatically changed the landscape as did the evolution of the regionals.
There was a stark change when we merged with USAir. It would be inaccurate to say that we all got along but for the most part, the crews were able to work together. The attitudes were different thought. Whereas we worked WITH the FAA and NASA on numerous projects, USAir didn't. And Colodny had little clue as to how to run an airline that tripled in size overnight. Worse, marketing had NO clue and within a short time, USAir had abandoned many if not most of the west coast markets it bought PSA for. Malin, the marketing 'guru' also wrecked the Florida Shuttle that PI had built using the F-28s.
While Colodny was at USAir, Delta got Ron Allen and Northwest had its CEO creating problems and the firestorm at United was a real confrontation.
Many will disagree but even Sully noted this in his book and that was the left seaters refused to exercise their authority. Sully said that hiring used to be for competence and now it was for compliance or something to that effect. He noted that we, the Capts, gave up the power of the parking brake.
I was on a flt from SEA to PHL crew base. We were deadheading and I knew the Capt so I elected to ride jumpseat. The 'bus had a problem and Buddy was talking on his cellphone to PIT maint resolving the problem. The agent came in, began her speil and Buddy waved her off trying to listen to maint. She was FURIOUS. She turned and stormed off. Buddy finished following maint's instructions, filled out the log and called ops for a push back. We were soon on our way to PHL. A week later Buddy gets a nasty-gram from the CP about his talking to his girlfriend and delaying a flight. The agent had written buddy up, sent it to the company CP. The company CP had been furious, wrote a letter to the base CP and said, "WTF??" No attempt to find out from Buddy what happened. Fortunately for Buddy he knew someone at SEA ATC and got transcripts of what radio calls were made when. He also had phone records of who he called and when.
Buddy explained that by not trying to use contract maint, he had saved the company money and time and possibly a cancellation. AND he had arrived at PHL ahead of schedule. Buddy asked for but never got an apology from ANYONE. That kind of stuff tends to take incentive away. On the other side, I knew guys who were constantly trying to screw the company. So it went both ways.
At USAir, we saw our contract gutted, salaries reduced, pensions lost. We had 20-25 yr F/Os and I talked with a friend, over 25yrs and he is going back on reserve on the 737. I told him to bid the A330, fly the pond as F/O and enjoy life. He said it was very tempting.
This has been a long answer but the short answer is, from my perspective, a lack of respect. And that makes Sully and his crew's achievement even more noteworthy. Although faced with considerable challenges professionally, he and his crew continued to maintain their personal professional standards at a remarkable level so when they were faced with essentially a dual engine failure and a ditching, they met the challenge.
...sorry to be so long. It was a great ride. Glad I was part of it. Miss the crews and the interaction but glad I am not there now.
Great idea, so I did just that in General Topics.
Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
We have some great guys working for us and some have been in the 727 so long they have flown all three seats and have returned to the panel to keep flying.
Keep the stories coming.
Keep the stories coming.