Enlisted Air Guard to pilot slot?

challenger

challenger

New Member
I am basically at a decision right now that is very important and need some insight from people who know more about the topic. I will be a sophomore after this semester. I am having trouble receiving enough financial aid for school and really will probably not make it through unless I can figure out something different. With this huge financial burden I have been struggling in school. I have already tried AFROTC and it does not seem to be the right fit for me and they do not give scholarships very readily. Also, I thing maybe guard or reserves is more along the lines of what I want to eventually do. I am considering joining the ANG which should come with a 20,000 dollar sign on bonus and pay for my school and supply around 600 to 800 dollars a month while I am in college full time.

So my question is pretty much would this be a good idea if I want to try and get a pilot slot later on?
 
First off, how old are you? Depending on which job you decide to do in the ANG/Reserves, it could take around a year to finish basic training and tech school. You're not going to have time to take college courses, so you're going to have to take a break from school. This could present a problem if you're in your later 20's.

Second, what was the problem with ROTC? I did a semester or so and didn't like it either, but this was due to personal issues at the time.

Joining the Guard/Reserves is a good way to "join the club" but in no way does it guarantee your selection or give you a leg up on other interviewees. IMO, if you do go this route, join a flying unit and be an aircrew member or do maintenance work on the aircraft in some capacity. This way, you get to know what military aviation is like, get to know the people that might be sitting on your interview board/reading your package, and maybe even the in's and out's of the aircraft you hope to fly. Pilot slots are far less numerous on the Guard/Reserve side, so you're going to have some stiff competition. Stack the deck as much as you can.

Finally, REALLY read your contract to make sure that your college benefits will cover your costs. The rules have changes A LOT recently so you need to make sure you can actually get to the money you're being promised.
 
The Fez said:
First off, how old are you? Depending on which job you decide to do in the ANG/Reserves, it could take around a year to finish basic training and tech school. You're not going to have time to take college courses, so you're going to have to take a break from school. This could present a problem if you're in your later 20's.

Second, what was the problem with ROTC? I did a semester or so and didn't like it either, but this was due to personal issues at the time.

Joining the Guard/Reserves is a good way to "join the club" but in no way does it guarantee your selection or give you a leg up on other interviewees. IMO, if you do go this route, join a flying unit and be an aircrew member or do maintenance work on the aircraft in some capacity. This way, you get to know what military aviation is like, get to know the people that might be sitting on your interview board/reading your package, and maybe even the in's and out's of the aircraft you hope to fly. Pilot slots are far less numerous on the Guard/Reserve side, so you're going to have some stiff competition. Stack the deck as much as you can.

Finally, REALLY read your contract to make sure that your college benefits will cover your costs. The rules have changes A LOT recently so you need to make sure you can actually get to the money you're being promised.
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Yeah from what I hear it sounds like to have everything in writing is what I need to do. I am 20 and turning 21 in March. The way I see it I could apply for an OTS slot later on as well, but at that point either I get it or I don't. The main problem I have with ROTC is that I do not have time to do ROTC, school and work all at the same time. Also, there is no guarantee there of a slot either. Not to mention the fact that I am still struggling to just survive. If I had my tuition covered and some money coming in it would make it so I could mainly focus on school and do better. At this rate I would probably end up with a 2.5 at best and not be competitive for a pilot slot.
 
challenger said:
Yeah from what I hear it sounds like to have everything in writing is what I need to do. I am 20 and turning 21 in March. The way I see it I could apply for an OTS slot later on as well, but at that point either I get it or I don't. The main problem I have with ROTC is that I do not have time to do ROTC, school and work all at the same time. Also, there is no guarantee there of a slot either. Not to mention the fact that I am still struggling to just survive. If I had my tuition covered and some money coming in it would make it so I could mainly focus on school and do better. At this rate I would probably end up with a 2.5 at best and not be competitive for a pilot slot.
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Age-wise, you're fine but don't dilly-dally. It's true that you're not guaranteed a pilot slot in ROTC, I just asked out of curiosity. I've heard of so many different experiences with the program that I always ask. If you go Guard, you'll go to AMS (Academy of Military Sciences). Reserves go to OTS. Why the difference? I have no idea. Either way, you start the whole thing off knowing exactly what you're going to fly, which takes a lot of the stress away. I understand the starving student thing, which the GI Bill can definitely help with. But don't kill yourself for a high GPA. Just do your best.

The most important thing, IMO, if you enlist in the Guard/Reserves: let it be known that you want to be a pilot from the beginning. As said before, do something aviation-related...it can really help you out. If you make a good name for yourself in your unit through hard work and a good attitude, chances are that you'll meet a board of people you've known for a while and that can really help you interview well. Even if interviewing with other units, you'll have experience talking to pilot-types. Hope this helps, let me know if you have any other questions.
 
The Fez said:
Age-wise, you're fine but don't dilly-dally. It's true that you're not guaranteed a pilot slot in ROTC, I just asked out of curiosity. I've heard of so many different experiences with the program that I always ask. If you go Guard, you'll go to AMS (Academy of Military Sciences). Reserves go to OTS. Why the difference? I have no idea. Either way, you start the whole thing off knowing exactly what you're going to fly, which takes a lot of the stress away. I understand the starving student thing, which the GI Bill can definitely help with. But don't kill yourself for a high GPA. Just do your best.

The most important thing, IMO, if you enlist in the Guard/Reserves: let it be known that you want to be a pilot from the beginning. As said before, do something aviation-related...it can really help you out. If you make a good name for yourself in your unit through hard work and a good attitude, chances are that you'll meet a board of people you've known for a while and that can really help you interview well. Even if interviewing with other units, you'll have experience talking to pilot-types. Hope this helps, let me know if you have any other questions.
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There was no camaraderie in ROTC here either which I considered to be a big problem. The unit I am interested in has F-16's and I just told my recruiter to let me know when something opens up. An idea that I have recently come up with is that my school has a degree where you can go into it with an associates degree in aircraft maintenance and get a degree out of it so I could actually graduate in around 2 to 3 semesters from my college.

Does anyone know if an aircraft maintenance job was to open and I were to do it, would I get an associates degree from it? If I were able to do something like that it could really put a jump start on my future I think.
 
An associate's degree would depend on a) how many credits you already have and in what fields b) whether or not the CCAF would accept the credits towards a CCAF associate's degree.

I got my CCAF associate's with only a few classes which were required under my bachelor's program anyway. It can give you a jumpstart if you get into the right field. I'd ask your recruiter about it.
 
challenger said:
There was no camaraderie in ROTC here either which I considered to be a big problem.
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Results not typical.

There was lots of camaraderie in my ROTC Detachment. I am still close friends with numerous of my classmates nearly 15 years later, and even with the ones who long since left the AF.
 
I wasn't AFROTC, but I'll say that my NROTC commissioning class got pretty close by our last couple of years in school. Most other classes were similar from what I saw. I'm sure mileage varies between units, but my experience was a good one.
 
challenger said:
There was no camaraderie in ROTC here either which I considered to be a big problem.
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I did AFROTC my first freshmen semester at a det. that was made up of close to a dozen cross town schools. You would see people once a week and that was it. It was kind of tough to build the comaraderie that you might find in other det. or programs, especially OCS.
 
challenger said:
The main problem I have with ROTC is that I do not have time to do ROTC, school and work all at the same time. Also, there is no guarantee there of a slot either. Not to mention the fact that I am still struggling to just survive. If I had my tuition covered and some money coming in it would make it so I could mainly focus on school and do better. At this rate I would probably end up with a 2.5 at best and not be competitive for a pilot slot.
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I don't mean to come off like a crusty old bastard, but I did exactly that -- worked nights at an FBO, participated in AFROTC, and got my degree. It's NOT impossible. It's a hell of an exercise in time management and personal discipline, but it can be done.

You're right that it may cost you in the grades department. It sure did cost me. I graduated with something just over 3.0, and that was after having something in the low 2.0s the first year I tried this juggling act.

When I was in AFROTC in the early 90s, pilot slots were SCARCE (far more difficult to come by than today), and I did not get one. Although I didn't have a great GPA, I probably wouldn't have gotten one even if it was significantly better than that.

But, I got commissioned, applied to the active duty board several times, and eventually got picked up for UPT.

So, don't discount that as a path to getting a commission and flying. It may not be the "easy" route, but nothing worth doing is. Sure there's no "guarantee" of a pilot slot, but so what? You'll soon find out that there are no guarantees at all in the military -- contracts with the government are only to be binding on your side. The government is allowed to negate, change, etc, the contract at any time they please.

I'm not saying you shouldn't try with the ANG, because that can be a good route. It's not, however, necessarily better or easier. Just ask all the guys who fly with the ANG units that have been BRAC'd to fly RPVs over the last 5 years! :)
 
Hacker15e said:
When I was in AFROTC in the early 90s, pilot slots were SCARCE (far more difficult to come by than today), and I did not get one. Although I didn't have a great GPA, I probably wouldn't have gotten one even if it was significantly better than that.
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I remember guys who had pilot/nav slots, getting them taken away due to the reduced need for pilots (this was just pre-Desert Storm and a couple of years prior to the first banking). Since these guys were junior/seniors (POC) on contract, and since the AF broke their end of the contract, they had the choice of taking what was available, or being released from their contract if they so desired. This was back when you had a WPSS board at the end of Sophomore year and received your slot prior to summer camp, so if you didn't get what you wanted, you could still opt out; versus now where you go to camp first and get on contract, then get a slot.....thus rolling the dice.
 
MikeD said:
This was back when you had a WPSS board at the end of Sophomore year and received your slot prior to summer camp, so if you didn't get what you wanted, you could still opt out; versus now where you go to camp first and get on contract, then get a slot.....thus rolling the dice.
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That changed in '92 or so IIRC -- right before I got categorized my AS300 year, so I was sort of committed by then! There certainly were people who punched out all the way up into the AS400 year, too, because of all kinds of different reasons.

The best I can remember the "board" was held in the fall after return from Field Training. Depending on your FT performance, the AF had the option of offering you entrance into the POC, or telling you to have a nice day.

I seem to recall walking into my Det on a summer day before classes started in the fall and signing the POC paperwork.
 
Hacker15e said:
I don't mean to come off like a crusty old bastard, but I did exactly that -- worked nights at an FBO, participated in AFROTC, and got my degree. It's NOT impossible. It's a hell of an exercise in time management and personal discipline, but it can be done.

You're right that it may cost you in the grades department. It sure did cost me. I graduated with something just over 3.0, and that was after having something in the low 2.0s the first year I tried this juggling act.

When I was in AFROTC in the early 90s, pilot slots were SCARCE (far more difficult to come by than today), and I did not get one. Although I didn't have a great GPA, I probably wouldn't have gotten one even if it was significantly better than that.

But, I got commissioned, applied to the active duty board several times, and eventually got picked up for UPT.

So, don't discount that as a path to getting a commission and flying. It may not be the "easy" route, but nothing worth doing is. Sure there's no "guarantee" of a pilot slot, but so what? You'll soon find out that there are no guarantees at all in the military -- contracts with the government are only to be binding on your side. The government is allowed to negate, change, etc, the contract at any time they please.

I'm not saying you shouldn't try with the ANG, because that can be a good route. It's not, however, necessarily better or easier. Just ask all the guys who fly with the ANG units that have been BRAC'd to fly RPVs over the last 5 years! :)
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ROTC can throw me out whenever they want so why should I let my grades suffer for it? It is kind of a catch 22 because if I were to apply for OCS/OTS, I would rather have a 3.5 compared to a 2.0. I understand the hard work and time management factor, but this honestly is one of the only times in a persons life where they have the time to let loose and have fun on the side after getting everything else done.

I would be more interested if I was impressed by the detachment I was at. It is no wonder the Air Force is in so much trouble right now with the quote unquote leadership development that takes place in ROTC. They should just can the whole damned program and expand OTS if it is like how it was at my school everywhere.
 
challenger said:
ROTC can throw me out whenever they want so why should I let my grades suffer for it?
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Yeah, they can do that from OTS, too. It's the same risk -- it is just risk now versus risk later. Entry into OTS isn't exactly a given -- in fact, it's much more competitive than AFROTC.

challenger said:
this honestly is one of the only times in a persons life where they have the time to let loose and have fun on the side after getting everything else done.
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With all due respect, you're 20 years old -- how the hell would you know?

As I said, I worked, did ROTC, and carried a full load of classes at a State University. I don't feel like I missed out on a damn thing.

It certainly wasn't the only time in my life that I've had an opportunity to cut loose and have fun.

In fact, every single year that I've been in the active duty AF has been more fun than any year that I had in college. I've been involved in much greater idiocy, buffoonery, and debauchery, AND I've done it with more money too, heh heh.

challenger said:
I would be more interested if I was impressed by the detachment I was at. It is no wonder the Air Force is in so much trouble right now with the quote unquote leadership development that takes place in ROTC. They should just can the whole damned program and expand OTS if it is like how it was at my school everywhere.
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Like any formal training program in AETC, ROTC has it's retardation. But, the idea that your Detachment represents AFROTC as a whole is a bit dumb.
 
What Hacker said. I know you want to get your GPA up (and really should), but don't think good grades and decent AFOQT scores will get you a slot through OTS. It definitely won't with a Guard/Reserve unit. Bust your ass in class, but be sure to do some extra curriculars, community service, and work your way into some leadership positions. Bottom line dude:

1) ROTC is probably your best shot if you want to fly.
2) If it seems the leadership in your detachment is lame, freaking step in and make a difference! That goes for anything you do. Don't step in thinking everything should be perfect. Join the bros and be a leader yourself to fix the problems.
3) College is not a time to just sit back and relax. Yeah have some fun, but how are you going to stand out from the thousands of other pilot applicants (or 10% of the unemployed population should you need a civilian job when you graduate)?
4) You'll have plenty of Friday nights at UPT to drown your sorrows and push it up hard (well...that's the approach I'm taking anyway).
 
Hacker15e said:
Yeah, they can do that from OTS, too. It's the same risk -- it is just risk now versus risk later. Entry into OTS isn't exactly a given -- in fact, it's much more competitive than AFROTC.



With all due respect, you're 20 years old -- how the hell would you know?

As I said, I worked, did ROTC, and carried a full load of classes at a State University. I don't feel like I missed out on a damn thing.

It certainly wasn't the only time in my life that I've had an opportunity to cut loose and have fun.

In fact, every single year that I've been in the active duty AF has been more fun than any year that I had in college. I've been involved in much greater idiocy, buffoonery, and debauchery, AND I've done it with more money too, heh heh.



Like any formal training program in AETC, ROTC has it's retardation. But, the idea that your Detachment represents AFROTC as a whole is a bit dumb.
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I do not mean to come off as a person who thinks they know everything. I guess I am just stubborn to hear what I do not want to hear, so I appreciate the input that you have.

If I am not happy with the det. at my current school, do you think it would be more wise to try a different school rather then doing the guard idea?

The financial stress might have just gotten to me.

The overall picture is probably more complex then just the ROTC Det. I was in. I came to a school with the naive idea of getting a degree in Commercial Aviation, and it seems like every corner I turn here something else goes wrong. It feels like I need to find myself again because I had so much more drive and passion for what I want to move towards before I came here. So the way I see it one thing is for certain, if I will ever have any chance, then I need to make some sort of a change here.
 
challenger said:
I am basically at a decision right now that is very important and need some insight from people who know more about the topic. I will be a sophomore after this semester. I am having trouble receiving enough financial aid for school and really will probably not make it through unless I can figure out something different. With this huge financial burden I have been struggling in school. I have already tried AFROTC and it does not seem to be the right fit for me and they do not give scholarships very readily. Also, I thing maybe guard or reserves is more along the lines of what I want to eventually do. I am considering joining the ANG which should come with a 20,000 dollar sign on bonus and pay for my school and supply around 600 to 800 dollars a month while I am in college full time.

So my question is pretty much would this be a good idea if I want to try and get a pilot slot later on?
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I knew an individual who was an enlisted ANG unit member and she got picked up for a Reserve UPT slot at the same time I did. I think it's a good way to go to get your foot in the door and see if you enjoy the military environment before taking the big leap.
 
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