Reliability of Aircraft?

Jeremy

New Member
I was bored yesterday, so I decided to look at some airplanes on Controller.com

I saw some pretty cheap airplanes, and I wondered if they were really reliable aircraft or not. For example, if this plane is only $15,000, how safe can it be?

Also, what is considered a lot of hours for a small GA aircraft?
 
Without seeing the plane, things such as trashed paint, interiors, and high engine/airframe times don't necessarily equate to a safety issue. I've seen some Cherokees for sale that only have 1 com, and no nav instruments at all. Pure day VFR type stuff, and less than aesthetically pleasing to boot. I'd still fly it.
 
cheap safe planes can be found. 22k for an older ('57) 172 is what i've got. Came with 1 radio, no transponder, pretty stripped. Seemed like a good deal, and it was great for a while. But planes like this one can turn from safe & cheap to unsafe & expensive very quickly when corrosion catches up to it, engine mounts need replaced, etc etc....so buyer beware.

Anyone want to buy an unsafe cheap airplane? c'mon c'mon...she flew fine this morning :) has a fresh annual and she's not that bad.
 
That will reliably clean your wallet out.
2650 smoh? How much longer you think it will go?
 
cheap safe planes can be found. 22k for an older ('57) 172 is what i've got. Came with 1 radio, no transponder, pretty stripped. Seemed like a good deal, and it was great for a while. But planes like this one can turn from safe & cheap to unsafe & expensive very quickly when corrosion catches up to it, engine mounts need replaced, etc etc....so buyer beware.

Anyone want to buy an unsafe cheap airplane? c'mon c'mon...she flew fine this morning :) has a fresh annual and she's not that bad.

I thought you couldn't fly without a transponder.
 
On that 172N:

13750 Hours
2625 SMOH

I'm thinking its engine will need an overhaul soon, pretty sure it is past TBO...

So factor in 10K to 30K to get'er up to speed (depends on who does it and which engine). 13K hours on the airframe is a lot of hours, but not an incredible lot of hours, everything just depends. Like it has been mentioned, get a great pre-buy inspection buy an independent (someone you really trust) A&P IA.


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It also failed to mention if was in annual. It may not have had one in years which would also add some cost. An N model for 15k screams buyer beware.
 
I was bored yesterday, so I decided to look at some airplanes on Controller.com

I saw some pretty cheap airplanes, and I wondered if they were really reliable aircraft or not. For example, if this plane is only $15,000, how safe can it be?

Also, what is considered a lot of hours for a small GA aircraft?

This airplane is probably just fine in terms of safety. It has high airframe and engine times which account for the low price. If it has low compression, it may need an O/H or cylinders replaced. If not, you might be able to fly it for a while and do nothing but put gas in it and change the oil. It just becomes a greater financial risk and liability the further you get from overhaul.
 
From my limited experience reading/talking to individuals about aircraft purchases there are three main factors, in order of importance IMO, in price:

  1. Inspections: In this case the 2600 SMOH would drastically reduce the price since it will likely be needed soon. Beyond that, what about the other inspections?
  2. Equipment: Pretty self explanatory.
  3. Airframe time: There are guys here flying aircraft with 100,000 hours, so 13k isn't too bad. That also depends primarily on how the aircraft was stored, especially during storms and somewhat on how it was flown.
 
Back when my ownership group was looking for an aircraft, we ran across an aircraft listed by a dealer who was friends with most of the guys in the group. I couldn't stand the guy - he's one of those type of people where when you ask something simple like "hey, can I ask your opinion on something?" he'll fire back with a "well I dunno, can you? You know, that type of deeeeek.

Anyways, he had a 172 listed that looked in fantastic shape, other than being burnt orange. Was owned by a local ATC and the guy swore up and down it was a solid aircraft. Looked in tip top shape - a 9 in and out, despite a dated look. So we had our mechanic do a pre-buy.

I can't remember everything that came up, but the two big ones were a large crack in one cylinder and a 6+ inch crack in the elevator that was being held together by tape (and not in a legally flyable way according to our mechanic). Also, we did the pre-buy under the understanding that the enghine had been overhauled 200 hours ago. Our mechanic said no way - and as it turns out, it was a top overhaul that they listed as a full overhaul. I was livid and wanted to demand compensation from the dealer for our pre-buy costs ($900 I believe). But the "good ol' boy" network one out and we didn't do a damn thing.

Long story short - appearance means nothing when it comes to aircraft.
 
There's a saying among boaters that I believe applies to aviation as well...

"So you want to buy a boat? ok, take two five gallon buckets fill em up with money and go dump them in the river."

Sorta applies to most aspects of aviation imho.

cordially,

b.
 
I'm not so bothered by the 13K on the airframe, but I would certainly want to know where it lived and how it was stored, as well as what type of flight accumulated those hours.

Pretty sure TBO on those engines is 2000 hours, so you're way past, and again, given the unknown condition of everything (or so it certainly seems), I would be doing an overhaul on that engine ASAP if I bought it.

We have no idea what the condition of the aircraft is, what avionics it has, etc, so looking at something like that, I would emphasize "Buyer Beware."

In my opinion, there are much better aircraft for sale, so why rummage at the bottom of the barrel? There's a saying in Porsche circles, that the cheapest Porsche to buy will be the most expensive to own. I find this holds true of most anything mechanical, but especially with mechanical things that aren't cheap to work on (airplanes, European cars, boats, swiss watches, etc).
 
The N model had the notoriously troublesome O-320-H2AD engine that had/has a reputation for tearing up camshafts and lifters. Although Lycoming claimed they fixed most of the issues, the reputation remains and I'm little leery of an engine wth "AD" as part of it's model number anyhow.
 
Only within the lateral confines of class B or C airspace. And even then you can call ahead get approval for a time slot, and go in to get it worked on.

In most places. In some places, no transponder means you will be receiving a visit from a Customs helicopter and they will not be happy with you. :D
 
The C-172 appears to have a run out engine and no pictures in the advertisement makes you wonder about cosmetics.

Our personal aircraft is a former trainer with 7500+ hours TT. It is a lot of hours for the Airframe, but what sold us was the 300 hour time on the engine since major overhaul. The IFR Nav/Com package added some more value for the training we planned to complete using her.

The VREF pricing from AOPA was used for the negotiations. The purchase included a fresh annual by an independent shop, our investment was $15k including taxes.
 
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