Getting in was easy....how do you get out?

[Airdale]

I'm going to be completely frank with you, this may sound a little cold, but well, we're an advice-based website so here comes.

Like I've explained over the years time and time again it's "ebb and flow". I have good weeks and I also have bad weeks and will continue to do so until I either permanently bust my medical or reach age-70 retirement.

Personally, there's nothing else I'd rather do at this point in my life than fly airplanes across the ocean. Will that change? Maybe, I don't know, but it certainly beats any other alternatives.

Does flying complete me? NOPE.

Did I expect it to complete me? Initially YES, but as I matured (both cronologically and career-wise), I realized that only I can complete myself and that was very liberating.

It seems like what you're talking about are the pressures of commuting (well, stop commuting) and the pressures of being low on the seniority list that were incurred after you left Colgan for a lateral move to another regional (remember my endless speeches about lateral moves?)

Personally, I'd get off the internet, buy a six pack of beer, sit in the backyard for a bit and figure out my 12-month, 5-year and 15-year goals and ascertain if what you're doing today is consistent with meeting those objectives.

Call a friend, and if you don't have anyone that can empathize with your situation, hell, call me (PM me for the number) I'll grab a beer and we'll shoot the shiznit for a bit and help you make figure some stuff out. That's a real offer.

Thanks for the offer Doug....I may take you up on that.

Did you check out the links I provided? Those guys do great work for prior military.

Thanks bud, I did briefly. Going to look into them a bit more.

It turns out that every career is so completely in line with voluntary service in the military, that you should have no problem applying this persons life lessons to your own.

Hey, isn't telling people your knees are shot by the Marine Corps online indirectly complaining about it?

For the rest of us mere mortals:

I've always tried to get a lot of opinions and viewpoints from other people, it has worked well for me. Keep getting ideas. This guy obviously has one view that simply closes you down from relying on anyone but yourself. Or he likes telling stories about how tough and self reliant he is. I'd keep getting options together, keeping working out possibilities in your mind, and be patient.

My perspective has been a little different. I bailed out of Colgan a little before you (if I remember right) and went to Mesaba, got my +1000hrs TPIC and now I'm just coasting until a better opportunity shows up. Maybe you could look into some street captaining somewhere or get on someplace that'll get you that turbine PIC (if you still think airlines is the place to go), overseas right now seems to be the place to go. Perhaps you could just keep building time for a corporate gig someday. One pilot here (at Mesaba) got about 6k hours and just quit for a bit, went back home and instructed until a captain gig came up and she got her 1000 too. She just took a little while to get it is all.

Keep them eyes open for another opportunity.

Thanks for the help Joe, I appreciate it.

Airdale,

You have laments that I heard alot while I was at RAH. So, you're not alone in them.

Take this to heart when I say it.

The job is as good or as bad as you make it. Personally, I didn't commute the first six years, and life was grand. The last 3 I commuted, and it sucked. Horribly. I can empathize with you on how bad.

Some guys can take the domestic commuting, and some can't. If I EVER end up at a domestic job again, I'm moving to the base. I can't do the job to spend one night a week in my bed.

And, from these forums, I have learned that there is many types of flying where you can make similar money. And be home. Sure, it's not living where you want with the promise of lots of days off and a small ransom in yearly salary as you advance through the ranks. That's where the trade off is.

Now for the tough love.

Nothing would annoy me faster, as I'm riding on the crew van on Thanksgiving, as one of the top 10% or so seniority-wise pilots of the company and listen to people say things like "Well, I've been here 6 months!!! I can't believe I'm working on a HOLIDAY!"

Or "I'm going to just call in sick since I have to work the superbowl."

Or "It's BS that I have to work EVERY weekend"

Now, here I am, towards the top of the list sitting in the crew van too. Do you think they thought for one second that I'd been there 7-8-9 years and am working the same day? It's not cause I wanted to, but it was the best schedule I could hold for my family.

You've been at it for 24 months, with a furlough. I can totally see why you want out. You've hoed a tough road, and there's little good you can see on the horizon.

The important thing is to do your own life assessment.

Start with the quality of life you want and work from there.

Too many people start with the vision of a QoL of a 30 year CA from the 1970s, making enough money to buy a Cadillac cash from every paycheck, home all the holidays. The don't know about the sacrifice he made to get there. Flying DC-3s using airway markers and no weather radar and no real ATC working his ass off.

The pilots of the 40's and 50's worked hard to get the lifestyle of the 60's and 70's that the pilots enjoyed.

However, that was yesterday, and this is today.

Look at what's important to you, because if your life rings hollow, then what are you working for?

Everyone is different, and if you think airline flying, or being a professional pilot, is not what motivates you. Or if you don't think the personal sacrifices aren't worth it, find something that makes you happy.

Good luck on your quest.

Take a break from the forums.....if nothing else, place the "AIRLINE PILOTS" forum on your personal ignore and get to self-evaluating.

Polar, thanks for the great response.

I'm not trying to "whine and complain" and I'm not looking for sympathy. I'm just trying to draw a conclusion that this career isn't what it used to be. Its easy for the guy flying heavy metal across the pond to say "just pay your dues and tough it out." For those currently at the bottom of the mainline seniority list, they have maybe a 10% chance of achieving that position. For those at the bottom of the Regional pile, I think the chance is less than 1%.

Over the last 10 years, and even more over the last 5 years, the mainline seats have gotten smaller and the regional seats gotten bigger. I have a good friend who is a 75 Captain at Continental, flies international a couple times a month and says there's no better job in the world.

My goal with my career in aviation was to fly for Continental (preferrably) and be based in EWR flying long haul domestic or international. Or [insert any Legacy carrier] with a decent schedule. I'm beginning to think that my original career aspirations in flying are going to fall short.

My future looks like a career at Republic, or at best, catching the bottom wave into the bottom of a Legacy seniority list and sit reserve the rest of my career. I just didn't envision doing a career at a Regional airline. If my fate is a career at a Regional airline, then I think I want out.

Its not as simple as "move in base". Well what base do you chose to move in to? The one they're probably going to close in a year? I've got more interests to look out for than my own. I have a wife, with a great career teaching at a school that she loves. Her students have scored the highest on state exams the last three years. It obvious that she loves what she does and she makes an impact on the education of kids. Factor in a child soon, and I just can't be packing up the family and moving to every base Republic decides to displace me to. We have a house in Jersey and too many affairs that prevent us from packing up right now. If we had to move somewhere for a job opportunity, we would. But not to play musical bases with a Regional. My friend here at Republic has been involuntarily displaced 4 times in one year!!

The airline industry has ebbs and flows, but I think I've been slightly behind those waves. A year sooner, and life would be drastically different. I just think I've caught the industry at a bad time and its going to be an uphill battle. I don't want to do a career at a Regional...or a half assed Major if thats what we're going to become here.

Does anyone else not see that goal of flying for a Legacy slowly diminishing?

 

[staplegun]

I'm not trying to "whine and complain" and I'm not looking for sympathy. I'm just trying to draw a conclusion that this career isn't what it used to be. Its easy for the guy flying heavy metal across the pond to say "just pay your dues and tough it out." For those currently at the bottom of the mainline seniority list, they have maybe a 10% chance of achieving that position. For those at the bottom of the Regional pile, I think the chance is less than 1%.

Over the last 10 years, and even more over the last 5 years, the mainline seats have gotten smaller and the regional seats gotten bigger. I have a good friend who is a 75 Captain at Continental, flies international a couple times a month and says there's no better job in the world.

My goal with my career in aviation was to fly for Continental (preferrably) and be based in EWR flying long haul domestic or international. Or [insert any Legacy carrier] with a decent schedule. I'm beginning to think that my original career aspirations in flying are going to fall short.

My future looks like a career at Republic, or at best, catching the bottom wave into the bottom of a Legacy seniority list and sit reserve the rest of my career. I just didn't envision doing a career at a Regional airline. If my fate is a career at a Regional airline, then I think I want out.

...

The airline industry has ebbs and flows, but I think I've been slightly behind those waves. A year sooner, and life would be drastically different. I just think I've caught the industry at a bad time and its going to be an uphill battle. I don't want to do a career at a Regional...or a half assed Major if thats what we're going to become here.

Does anyone else not see that goal of flying for a Legacy slowly diminishing?

FYI:

Retirements at Delta over next 15 years

2009 1
2010 5
2011 7
2012 12
2013 107
2014 172
2015 230
2016 277
2017 313
2018 388
2019 466
2020 535
2021 706
2022 738
2023 661
2024 226

____________
4843


Current seniority list: 12,273 - 4843 = 7430 = New hire seniority in 15 years

Seniority # 7430 is currently a mid-seniority B-767ER International F/O based in ATL.

Current pay for this position approximately $115,200 gross. In 2012 it will be $130,000 gross.

Assumptions: No growth, no early retirements.


We don't know what the future will bring. Barring unforeseen armageddon-like events, my opinion is that the economy will eventually recover and so will airline flying. I foresee a 14,000 to 15,000 pilot seniority list in the future at Delta.

FWIW...


Kevin

 

[derg]

Seniority # 7430 is currently a mid-seniority B-767ER International F/O based in ATL.

Seniority # 8086 is currently a top 25% B-767ER International F/O based in NYC and wondering what in the devil he's going to do for lunch and has a hankering for a little bit of fresh iced tea with whatever he decides to do.



(Good to see ya, my widgetbro!)

 

[Airdale]

Seniority # 8086 is currently a top 25% B-767ER International F/O based in NYC and wondering what in the devil he's going to do for lunch and has a hankering for a little bit of fresh iced tea with whatever he decides to do.



(Good to see ya, my widgetbro!)

And what is his hire date?

 

[derg]

And what is his hire date?

Mine? Oh, I really don't fly for Southernjets, I'm just a Tomcatter!