Getting in was easy....how do you get out?

mtsu_av8er said:
After 8 years in the Marine Corps, I decided that I didn't want to be in the Marine Corps anymore. I didn't ask my friends for advice. I didn't post on the Internet about it. I didn't complain about how bad my knees were, and that it was the fault of the Marine Corps.

I packed my bags, and I left . . . after I was discharged, of course.
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It turns out that every career is so completely in line with voluntary service in the military, that you should have no problem applying this persons life lessons to your own.

Hey, isn't telling people your knees are shot by the Marine Corps online indirectly complaining about it?

For the rest of us mere mortals:

I've always tried to get a lot of opinions and viewpoints from other people, it has worked well for me. Keep getting ideas. This guy obviously has one view that simply closes you down from relying on anyone but yourself. Or he likes telling stories about how tough and self reliant he is. I'd keep getting options together, keeping working out possibilities in your mind, and be patient.

My perspective has been a little different. I bailed out of Colgan a little before you (if I remember right) and went to Mesaba, got my +1000hrs TPIC and now I'm just coasting until a better opportunity shows up. Maybe you could look into some street captaining somewhere or get on someplace that'll get you that turbine PIC (if you still think airlines is the place to go), overseas right now seems to be the place to go. Perhaps you could just keep building time for a corporate gig someday. One pilot here (at Mesaba) got about 6k hours and just quit for a bit, went back home and instructed until a captain gig came up and she got her 1000 too. She just took a little while to get it is all.

Keep them eyes open for another opportunity.
 
jynxyjoe said:
It turns out that every career is so completely in line with voluntary service in the military, that you should have no problem applying this persons life lessons to your own.
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They may not be in line with military service, but they sure are a lot easier.

Hey, isn't telling people your knees are shot by the Marine Corps online indirectly complaining about it?
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Yes, that's it. I'm complaining about my kness.
 
One thing I'd recommend is staying off the internet web forums. You seem to get pretty worked up over stuff that gets posted on here and it sounds like you don't need another source of stress. I used to be addicted to these forums but now visit much less frequently because I'd read some rumor and lose sleep over it. Now I spend lots of time with my wife and daughter, exercising, and if I'm checking out forums I'll go to cycling or guitar websites because those are my hobbies.

Whatever you do, good luck with your decision.
 
Airdale,

You have laments that I heard alot while I was at RAH. So, you're not alone in them.

Take this to heart when I say it.

The job is as good or as bad as you make it. Personally, I didn't commute the first six years, and life was grand. The last 3 I commuted, and it sucked. Horribly. I can empathize with you on how bad.

Some guys can take the domestic commuting, and some can't. If I EVER end up at a domestic job again, I'm moving to the base. I can't do the job to spend one night a week in my bed.

And, from these forums, I have learned that there is many types of flying where you can make similar money. And be home. Sure, it's not living where you want with the promise of lots of days off and a small ransom in yearly salary as you advance through the ranks. That's where the trade off is.

Now for the tough love.

Nothing would annoy me faster, as I'm riding on the crew van on Thanksgiving, as one of the top 10% or so seniority-wise pilots of the company and listen to people say things like "Well, I've been here 6 months!!! I can't believe I'm working on a HOLIDAY!"

Or "I'm going to just call in sick since I have to work the superbowl."

Or "It's BS that I have to work EVERY weekend"

Now, here I am, towards the top of the list sitting in the crew van too. Do you think they thought for one second that I'd been there 7-8-9 years and am working the same day? It's not cause I wanted to, but it was the best schedule I could hold for my family.

You've been at it for 24 months, with a furlough. I can totally see why you want out. You've hoed a tough road, and there's little good you can see on the horizon.

The important thing is to do your own life assessment.

Start with the quality of life you want and work from there.

Too many people start with the vision of a QoL of a 30 year CA from the 1970s, making enough money to buy a Cadillac cash from every paycheck, home all the holidays. The don't know about the sacrifice he made to get there. Flying DC-3s using airway markers and no weather radar and no real ATC working his ass off.

The pilots of the 40's and 50's worked hard to get the lifestyle of the 60's and 70's that the pilots enjoyed.

However, that was yesterday, and this is today.

Look at what's important to you, because if your life rings hollow, then what are you working for?

Everyone is different, and if you think airline flying, or being a professional pilot, is not what motivates you. Or if you don't think the personal sacrifices aren't worth it, find something that makes you happy.

Good luck on your quest.

Take a break from the forums.....if nothing else, place the "AIRLINE PILOTS" forum on your personal ignore and get to self-evaluating.
 
Well now that you've gotten the majical "121" time, go and try to find a decent 135 freight gig that has you home everynight/morning. Gather a some turbine PIC time and try to get to majors from there if you still desire to do so.

As I'm slowly transitioning to family mode, being at a company that can have me home everynight doesn't seem like such a bad idea anymore. Now if I only can find a gig with "good" pay that has me home everynight? hmmm.
 
Polar742 said:
.

Too many people start with the vision of a QoL of a 30 year CA from the 1970s, making enough money to buy a Cadillac cash from every paycheck, home all the holidays. The don't know about the sacrifice he made to get there. Flying DC-3s using airway markers and no weather radar and no real ATC working his ass off.

.
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A-N airway flying.......full up.
 
KLB said:
As I'm slowly transitioning to family mode
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:whip::whip::whip::whip::whip: (As close as dough has to the ball and chain)


You know I couldn't let that slip through the cracks....


sorry
/hijack
 
Indeed a crazy profession though. You have to deal with a lot of crap that other professionals get a pass on.

There's always the presumption that you're screwing everything that moves, whereas most office workers don't have to deal with that want-to-stab-my-eyes-out stigma. Meanwhile, many of those people propagating that stigma are dating or have gotten married from hookups with their co-workers in the Propane and Propane Accessories distribution center.

You do miss a lot of holidays. Some family members understand the sacrifice and others do not, IE "Hey! Are you coming down for Xmas 2011? I need to know NOW (Nov 2009) so I can plan on how much turkey dressing to make in a couple of years.

I don't know, some days it's good, other days not so good, but you really have to stop and think about why you got into the business in the first place.

If you were chasing glory, well, there's not much glory in the airline business.

If you were chasing glamour, well America wants something for nothing and for their friends to fly free so the margins are rock bottom low. Ain't no glamour on the 1st and 15th like their used to be.

It's really easy to become jaded and bitter if you start looking at all of the negative aspects of careers in aviation, but then of course, for every pilot complaining about his profession is probably a doctor bitching about the transition to managed care, a lawyer complaining about how "TV Commercial Discount Attorneys" are wrecking his business and porn stars complaining about how much he'd get per "money shot" in 1997 compared to 2009.
 
I know that you're married. Otherwise I don't know your home situation. If you have kids it's just going to get worse from here. My dad's a pilot for SWA so I know what it's like to grow up with an airline pilot dad. He's always been relatively senior but he still missed a bunch of stuff when my sisters and I were growing up. Once I had a son I knew that I didn't want to miss a minute of anything he did. Having someone I know once again die in a crash also weighed heavy on my decision.

I left Colgan as a capt in May. I was tired of being away from my son and my wife, my wife was making about twice as much as me. We ran the numbers and decided we could live on what she made if we pulled my son out of daycare. So now I'm a stay at home dad and every day isn't the greatest, but it's the greatest job I could ever hope to have. I was in your place every week I considered leaving. I eventually drove my wife crazy and she said "Make a decision already." So I did, and though I'd like a source of income and some idea of what I'm going to do when my son goes to school, I've never looked back

Dig deep, if you hate it that much and you can afford to quit, do it. You're not going to get these years back and if you switch to PBR (like I did) you can probably swing it financially. You might not be able to make a career in the airlines if you quit, but you can always go back to flying in some form.
 
Doug Taylor said:
Indeed a crazy profession though. You have to deal with a lot of crap that other professionals get a pass on.

There's always the presumption that you're screwing everything that moves, whereas most office workers don't have to deal with that want-to-stab-my-eyes-out stigma. Meanwhile, many of those people propagating that stigma are dating or have gotten married from hookups with their co-workers in the Propane and Propane Accessories distribution center.

You do miss a lot of holidays. Some family members understand the sacrifice and others do not, IE "Hey! Are you coming down for Xmas 2011? I need to know NOW (Nov 2009) so I can plan on how much turkey dressing to make in a couple of years.

I don't know, some days it's good, other days not so good, but you really have to stop and think about why you got into the business in the first place.

If you were chasing glory, well, there's not much glory in the airline business.

If you were chasing glamour, well America wants something for nothing and for their friends to fly free so the margins are rock bottom low. Ain't no glamour on the 1st and 15th like their used to be.

It's really easy to become jaded and bitter if you start looking at all of the negative aspects of careers in aviation, but then of course, for every pilot complaining about his profession is probably a doctor bitching about the transition to managed care, a lawyer complaining about how "TV Commercial Discount Attorneys" are wrecking his business and porn stars complaining about how much he'd get per "money shot" in 1997 compared to 2009.
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Sorrie to butt in on this serious conversation, but man Doug, that rite there was some good stuff. Can't stop laughing.:rotfl:
 
Screw the airlines. Go to Africa, or Papua New Guinea and fly, or go fly DC3s in the Caribbean, whatever you do, stop caring about your supposed "career progression." Some of the most miserable people I've met in this industry have been Captains at airlines working for that magical turbine PIC that will propel them into the big leagues. The biggest thing that I've seen about this industry is that its a life long carrot-and-stick routine. Something is always out there in front of your nose:

"ya know, if you stay here awhile and work real hard, we've gotta twin,"

"ya know, if you stay around these parts and work your way up, ya know, really put in your dues, you might be able to make it into some of our turbine equipment,"

"you do realize that if you stay at this regional you'll be able to upgrade in a year,"

"man, if I stay here another year I'll be able to get that 1000MTPIC then I'll be able to apply to a major!"

Then you see the guys who have finally, "made it" and they're all about the time off, all about the layover, all about not being at work. They only show up for their paycheck, and to go home. A great many of them are fairly empty inside, with AIDS (aviation induced divorce syndrome) or kids who they didn't see for several years as they were working up the company ladder, taking furloughs and spending time away. That's no way to spend your youth, don't let aviation become who you are.

This career will suck you up and eat you alive if you let it. Have some fun with it.
 
I doubt there are many among us who at some point haven't contemplated doing something else. I'd be lying if I said I hadn't. However, like others have said you have to take stock of what you're hoping to accomplish from this business.

For me I realized that this business isn't all that bad when I take it at face value. By that I mean the reality is that most days aren't that bad and there's no sense in ruining a good day by worrying about when the next bad one is coming along. What can you do about it? Nothing. My motto a while back became focus your concern on the factors you can control. Anything else is a waste of time. My Mom, who is probably the most practical person I know, told me over and over again growing up that you'll quit worrying about something as soon as you start doing something about it. It pissed me off because procrastinating is a heck of a lot easier but it does work.

You mentioned commuting and time off so I'll address that directly. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that commuting sucks for most of us in the domestic world. There are very few cases I've heard where commuting is someone's only option. I acknowledge they exist but in most cases it's a personal choice. Are you married? Does your wife work? Do you own a house? Do you have kids in school? Even if the answer to all of these questions is yes there are ways to eliminate the commute. Maybe the answer is you don't move tomorrow but you start taking steps in preparation to move. A lot of crappy situations are easy to endure when you know there is light at the end of the tunnel...kind of like day three of a 4 day. I know myself well enough to say that at this point there is no way in hell I'm commuting to XJT. I'd go crazy. My wife and I don't plan to spend the rest of our lives in NJ and we hated it at first but you know I really have started to make a home here and one day we'll leave....part of me will miss my life here. Even if we were forced to stay I think I'd be fine with that. Don't assume that base XYZ isn't livable because you fly with a lot of people who say it's a miserable place. I'd bet a lot of money that A) they don't live there, and B) they never did.

Above all else surround yourself with positive people. When people you work with start complaining either change the topic or go somewhere else. They just bring you down.

Good luck with whatever you decide. Sorry for the convoluted mess above :)
 
Airdale, I feel your pain.

That said. . .

If your career expectations are not meshing up with your short-term movement goals, then it's best to take an honest assessment of your place within this industry. We're not promised anything except more of the same. The status quo will be defended. Nothing is going to change over the short-term, and if you're not willing to go through the speed-bumps (be happy you're back at work - even if it is for a company you don't enjoy providing your services to), then it's probably best that you eject ASAP.

Pump those resumes out. Use those links Ian J provided, they really are great companies that have placed a number of great military members with stable work environments, perhaps even an environment that'll value you a tad bit more than an "Airline."

Good luck.
 
One of my favorite quotes is "everybody gets what they want". If you don't like it change it. I hated commuting, so I moved. My dog didn't want to chase the ball so he didn't. In this industry there are no certainties. You have no control over career progression, because you are a number. If you can't handle that you should go do something else.
 
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