The unicom police

flywithUS said:
Naw, if I heard that, I would just assume you fly a lot and got things mixed around a bit. Besides, we all have out moments of brain farts.

A couple of weeks ago, I had just departed with a student on an IFR flight late at night.

Approach: "What is your destination?"

Me: "We are going to uhhhhh...." Me to student: "Where are we going? Riiiiight" "We are going to..."








Now, every airport has its own personality, especially big training airports, but the airport I fly out of you hear this a lot, and I am big on using it too. Why? Because I think it adds to the safety of the operation. Sure I could just saying "switching to ATC" or "switching to the practice area frequency" but "last call" says the same thing quicker.

In my opinion, I don't think it sounds unprofessional. I have a lot of radio pet peeves too (such as asking if anybody is on base or final when you are holding short or asking if anybody is in the pattern when you are approaching the airport. You should I already know this and I hate people tying up the radio, especially when it gets really busy.)

It may not need seem like a big deal, but when you need to change frequencies quickly and there is an arriving aircraft coming from the same direction you are flying towards, it can help.

I especially use "last call" when I leave the practice area to go back to the airport.

Like I said though, this is my opinion.



I say that too, but I am also saying that on my other radio calls before my final call. Thus, if I say "last call" it stands out to any other traffic.



Now, while there is a huge experience difference hear, and we all would be wiser if us low time guys learned from the more experienced guys, I would be hesitant to discount the pilots who have to deal with busy uncontrolled airports daily, especially when there are student and weekend warriors mixed into the equation.

For me, I would take the side of one of our CFI's at our airport over any high time pilot any day when it comes to the safety of the airport I fly at. When you fly into one airport day in and day out, you know it like your back hand and you know what works and what doesn't.

Again, this is just my opinion. I am not trying to say anybody is wrong here.


Agreed.



:yeahthat:



Agreed. Which is why I am a fan of "last call".
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lots of wisdom all up in that post...
 
A-300F4-622R said:
I'm not "looking down" on you or anyone else. But when you advocate a non standard procedure, then I will call you on it.
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This thread makes me want to beat a child.

Do you use Tree and Fife for every radio call or say that your leaving each altitude in every radio call which is actual a REQUIRED report which no one does or teaches? I wouldn't believe you if you told me yes so anywhoo stop playing radio nazi no one cares. I let my students say whatever they want on the radio as long as they are getting the point across and saying the required reports.

Again, who cares about what is said over unicom?
 
Milesar said:
I always like to end my first call with "any traffic in the area please advise"

Yup.



Yesir.
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I hear that EVERYTIME I'm on a CTAF...and I have to bite my tongue and not key the mic and say "Some people don't have radios jackass". But thats just as unprofessional.
 
flywithUS said:
Now, while there is a huge experience difference hear, and we all would be wiser if us low time guys learned from the more experienced guys, I would be hesitant to discount the pilots who have to deal with busy uncontrolled airports daily, especially when there are student and weekend warriors mixed into the equation.

For me, I would take the side of one of our CFI's at our airport over any high time pilot any day when it comes to the safety of the airport I fly at. When you fly into one airport day in and day out, you know it like your back hand and you know what works and what doesn't.

Again, this is just my opinion. I am not trying to say anybody is wrong here.
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Just forget the issue for a second - pretend there is no right and wrong and just look at the way people communicate to the experienced pilots we say we want around JC but can't seem to keep. See below.

jhugz said:
This thread makes me want to beat a child.

Do you use Tree and Fife for every radio call or say that your leaving each altitude in every radio call which is actual a REQUIRED report which no one does or teaches? I wouldn't believe you if you told me yes so anywhoo stop playing radio nazi no one cares. I let my students say whatever they want on the radio as long as they are getting the point across and saying the required reports.

Again, who cares about what is said over unicom?
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You often hear these great stories about how people talked to some old timers at airshows or BSed with older guys around the hangars at your local airport and were so humbled by the opportunity to talk with people who have seen so much in aviation. But for some reason we think we can say things like "stop playing radio nazi" to them on the internet.

Is this how you would talk to this gentlemen if you were in his jumpseat? If he came to you for a BFR? If you were interested at a job with UPS one day?

Disagree all day long but just do so as if you were speaking to him face to face.
 
Ian J said:
You often hear these great stories about how people talked to some old timers at airshows or BSed with older guys around the hangars at your local airport and were so humbled by the opportunity to talk with people who have seen so much in aviation. But for some reason we think we can say things like "stop playing radio nazi" to them on the internet.

Is this how you would talk to this gentlemen if you were in his jumpseat? If he came to you for a BFR? If you were interested at a job with UPS one day?

Disagree all day long but just do so as if you were speaking to him face to face.
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When did this board stop being a DISCUSSION board? I understand the whole listen to the more experienced rather then talk all over them yada yada...but when he/she is so wrong on a topic I'm going to step in, thousands of hour Airbus Captain or not.
 
Ian J said:
You often hear these great stories about how people talked to some old timers at airshows or BSed with older guys around the hangars at your local airport and were so humbled by the opportunity to talk with people who have seen so much in aviation. But for some reason we think we can say things like "stop playing radio nazi" to them on the internet.

Is this how you would talk to this gentlemen if you were in his jumpseat? If he came to you for a BFR? If you were interested at a job with UPS one day?

Disagree all day long but just do so as if you were speaking to him face to face.
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People also forget that how they present themselves here; they're, in essence, interviewing for their next job, figuratively speaking. People see them here and their persona, how they interact with others, whether they're humble or not, etc. And through that, first impressions are formed. Those impressions can be lasting impressions not only for people here in positions to hire someone, but also those in positions to recommend someone....or not.....for a particular job.

I personally know of people on JC who have been positively as well as negatively affected by the impression here that they present. And those same people have gotten jobs, as well as lost consideration for jobs, because of just that. The positive know who they are, the negative don't.

Networking indeed goes both ways......
 
jhugz said:
When did this board stop being a DISCUSSION board?
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It didn't. Discuss away... that's why I said:

Ian J said:
Disagree all day long but just do so as if you were speaking to him face to face.
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If you were talking about this with him face to face your attitude would (should) be different. I highly doubt any 20-year-old CFI would call a UPS captain a "radio nazi" to their face.
 
jhugz said:
This thread makes me want to beat a child.

Do you use Tree and Fife for every radio call or say that your leaving each altitude in every radio call which is actual a REQUIRED report which no one does or teaches? I wouldn't believe you if you told me yes so anywhoo stop playing radio nazi no one cares. I let my students say whatever they want on the radio as long as they are getting the point across and saying the required reports.

Again, who cares about what is said over unicom?
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I use the proper phonetic sayings for everything. "Center, Flagship Niner Zero Fower Flight Level Two Tree Seven Climbing Flight Level Tree Fife Zero."

I'm probably wrong breaking down the flight number, so I just gave myself something to look up in the AIM; but yeah, I use the phonetic and keep my stuff brief if I can.

As far as last call, if I was approaching your unicom airport and heard that, I probably would have no idea what you were talking about.... until I read this thread. I would have thought "last call" meant "who was that last call" or something like that....
 
jhugz said:
When did this board stop being a DISCUSSION board? I understand the whole listen to the more experienced rather then talk all over them yada yada...but when he/she is so wrong on a topic I'm going to step in, thousands of hour Airbus Captain or not.
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FYI, no one has proven the Airbus Captain wrong in this instance yet. All that's been done is accusing people of being radio nazis and focusing on insignificant details. Radio discipline and proper terminology are not insignificant details, CTAF or not.
 
Ian J said:
It didn't. Discuss away... that's why I said:



If you were talking about this with him face to face your attitude would (should) be different. I highly doubt any 20-year-old CFI would call a UPS captain a "radio nazi" to their face.
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If he just called me an amateur for saying last call when I know he was just talking to ATC not making the required IFR reports that makes me laugh. He is trying to say that I'm an amateur for not following the AIM when he isn't even following the FAR's. I think the term "radio nazi" fits well here. If this post is taken so personally that I am black-balled from all UPS hiring for the rest of my life then so be it.

I love how this board has went to, if you disagree w/ someone more senior in the industry then you, you are black-balling yourself from a job later in the industry. Give me a Break.
 
jhugz said:
If he just called me an amateur for saying last call when I know he was just talking to ATC not making the required IFR reports that makes me laugh. He is trying to say that I'm an amateur for not following the AIM when he isn't even following the FAR's. I think the term "radio nazi" fits well here. If this post is taken so personally that I am black-balled from all UPS hiring for the rest of my life then so be it.

I love how this board has went to, if you disagree w/ someone more senior in the industry then you, you are black-balling yourself from a job later in the industry. Give me a Break.
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I've said it twice now and you are intentionally ignoring me - disagreement and discussion is fine. It's the way you do it that is important. Can you read these words? Do you understand them?

Tell you what, I'll let your own words say it for me:

http://forums.jetcareers.com/general-topics/96942-medical-emergency.html#post1314914

jhugz said:
Everyone needs to just relax on this thread.

To the OP, I am the master of coming of like a total DB when I don't really mean it, so let me just hook you up w/ some advice.

Even though you may not mean it, you will say stuff that gets people totally up in arms. For example, this thread. The best way to handle it is not to try to shovel yourself in deeper. Again, trust me been there done that. The way you came off is OMG I can't way to become a pilot so that I can deal w/ all these cool emergencies.

Obviously, you and I both know thats not what you really meant but tensions are high tonight and for good reason. Take it easy, try to explain where your coming from and don't attack other members just because they seem to be attacking you. Again, I don't set the best example but just trying to help a brother out.
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What's with all these "SNAPs" (hehe, thanks Todd, great use for here):

Just say how you are going to depart the pattern and then contact ATC if appropriate. This "last call" thing is amateurish and dumb, like taxiing around with your strobe lights on, but that's a whole other topic.
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James, he wasn't calling you "amateurish and dumb".... he was saying that using that phrase is "amateurish and dumb". Separate yourself from it by realizing it's not a personal insult.

If I went around and said "1 2 3 Sugah Pop" on frequency, if someone said, "hey YOU, YOU are amateurish and dumb", that would be getting the point across in a insulting manner. But, if someone told me, "I think that saying 1 2 3 Sugah Pop is amateurish and dumb", they are merely saying that I can improve my radio phraseology because something that I said is not up to par, not that I personally am not up to par.

Sensitive New Age Pilots..... sheesh. :D

And a hearty "yeah that" to the first page of the thread mentioning that airline pilots are the biggest offenders. Most guys that I fly with like to omit "Flight Level" and the phonetics from their calls. It really grinds my ears (and gears) when the CAs say "Flagship 4241 nineteen for twenty-three".
 
Fly_Unity said:
Whys that? Just curious.
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I did the last half of my PPL in the SR20, and while it was badass with the sidestick and Avidyne Glass, there was no real reason to be paying 135/hr to get a basic rating. I did my instrument in a 172 with steam gauges and I think overall I'm a better instrument pilot because of that.
 
jhugz said:
This thread makes me want to beat a child.

Do you use Tree and Fife for every radio call or say that your leaving each altitude in every radio call which is actual a REQUIRED report which no one does or teaches? I wouldn't believe you if you told me yes so anywhoo stop playing radio nazi no one cares. I let my students say whatever they want on the radio as long as they are getting the point across and saying the required reports.

Again, who cares about what is said over unicom?
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I do my best to make all REQUIRED radio reports because that's what I'm paid to do, you know, being a PROFESSIONAL.
 
jhugz said:
When did this board stop being a DISCUSSION board? I understand the whole listen to the more experienced rather then talk all over them yada yada...but when he/she is so wrong on a topic I'm going to step in, thousands of hour Airbus Captain or not.
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You're right, NOT using made-up unicom slang makes me in the wrong. Well, I'll just have to continue to be wrong and I'll have to continue to think of you as just another reason some of you guys are in the position you are in.
 
A-300F4-622R said:
You're right, NOT using made-up unicom slang makes me in the wrong. Well, I'll just have to continue to be wrong and I'll have to continue to think of you as just another reason some of you guys are in the position you are in.
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I love me some multi-quote, in the same post :D

Ask me how :rawk: lol
 
I would rather someone say "left final" then not say anything at all.

A bigger annoyance to me is the pilot who says, "Any traffic please advise," while there are five other aircraft in the pattern. I still wouldn't key-up the mic and chastise though.

The only time that I have keyed-up and said something was when a RV pilot decided to takeoff on the runway opposite that of which was currently in use by three other aircraft in the pattern...one of which was turning to the base leg.

I can tolerate bad form, needless chatter, etc, a heckuva lot more than I can that which impacts safety.
 
I used "Any traffic please advise" in New York Approach.

If you guys think it's unprofessional, well I think you're being a big blue meanie.





































:sarcasm:
 
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