HR915..beginning of pay-2-play?

Bandit_Driver said:
That is BS, IMO...Great now your 1st class is going to 100 plus fees....Next they'll start charging for ATC services...

In reading more on the Bill it indicates the following as supporters...

  • Airports Council International
  • Air Transport Association of America (ATA)
  • Regional Airline Association
  • National Business Aviation Association
  • FedEx
  • Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association
  • Rockwell Collins
  • General Aviation Manufacturers Association
  • National Air Traffic Controllers Association
  • Air Line Pilots Association
  • Transport Workers Union of America
  • International Brotherhood of Teamsters
  • United Postal Service
WTH, I find it odd that AOPA and the unions are for it....
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Actually FedEx is against the bill for the same reason the Teamsters are for the bill. If you take a look at section 806 of the bill it has to do with "Express Carrier Employee Protection". FedEx Express would have to change their non-essential airline employees in the Express part of the business to the NLRA instead of the RLA that they're currently covered under.

Anyway, I hope the part the OP posted gets amended....to the point where that section that has to do with fees goes completely away. Time to write the Senators.
 
trafficinsight said:
I would be willing to bet that the cost to process and replace a lost certificate is closer to 25$ than 2$

I am 100% against user fees, however, I think it's time to get a little more realistic about some of the costs that are already established.
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+1. Everyone stop their crying. These fee's are all realistic. It sucks, but sometimes the truth hurts.
 
Except the medical one, I thought they already charged the AMEs for the cost and then the AMEs sent that cost to us. Will they stop charging the AME now?
 
This is bunk.

I think it is ridiculous to jump from zero to ---. I think AOPA is ridiculous too.
 
Actually I think these are the worst things in that:

$45 for replacing an aircraft registration.

If they're gonna do that, they need to make them out of something better than business card stock and sign them with something better than a cheap "disappearing ink" ball-point pen.

$105 for issuing an aircraft certificate (other than an original dealer’s aircraft certificate).

See above.

$80 for issuing a special registration number.

used to be 3$ because all it is is an entry in the database, you can register an N number for an airplane you don't have.

$50 for issuing a renewal of a special registration number.

I guess this one isn't that bad... I guess if you really want a vanity N number you wouldn't mind it once every three years.

$100 for providing a legal opinion pertaining to aircraft registration or recordation.

100$ for an opinion... complete BS.
 
Bandit_Driver said:
That is BS, IMO...Great now your 1st class is going to 100 plus fees....Next they'll start charging for ATC services...

In reading more on the Bill it indicates the following as supporters...

  • Airports Council International
  • Air Transport Association of America (ATA)
  • Regional Airline Association
  • National Business Aviation Association
  • FedEx
  • Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association
  • Rockwell Collins
  • General Aviation Manufacturers Association
  • National Air Traffic Controllers Association
  • Air Line Pilots Association
  • Transport Workers Union of America
  • International Brotherhood of Teamsters
  • United Postal Service
WTH, I find it odd that AOPA and the unions are for it....
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The overall bill has huge improvements that ALPA supports, so minor issues like this won't stop us from supporting the bill. The key is to support the bill and then go to work on getting someone to chop out the parts we don't like, if possible. If we can't get that done, then it's still worth the small sacrifice on these things to get the much bigger issues done.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
The overall bill has huge improvements that ALPA supports, so minor issues like this won't stop us from supporting the bill. The key is to support the bill and then go to work on getting someone to chop out the parts we don't like, if possible. If we can't get that done, then it's still worth the small sacrifice on these things to get the much bigger issues done.
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What are the main reasons ALPA supports this bill?
 
PGT said:
What are the main reasons ALPA supports this bill?
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Several things:

- Gets NextGen ATC off the ground finally

- Requires the FAA to do a real study on pilot fatigue

- Gives pilots an extra avenue in the court of appeals to overturn an NTSB or FAA certificate action

- Implements rules on UAVs

- Establishes an FAA whisteblower department instead of it falling under OSHA

- Clarifies foreign control of airlines

- Increases HIMS funding and involvement

- And the big one: require the FAA to issue new rules on flight time/duty time
 
surreal1221 said:
Company reimbursement for job related expenses. . .

Moving on.
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:rotfl:
ATN_Pilot said:
The overall bill has huge improvements that ALPA supports, so minor issues like this won't stop us from supporting the bill. The key is to support the bill and then go to work on getting someone to chop out the parts we don't like, if possible. If we can't get that done, then it's still worth the small sacrifice on these things to get the much bigger issues done.
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I see the union's point on getting a lot now and trying to change the fees later. But isn't this letting the camel get its nose under the tent? I hope the fees can get stripped out before it passes. I personally don't see the fees being stopped once they get put in place...
 
Nick6485 said:
Anyway, I hope the part the OP posted gets amended....to the point where that section that has to do with fees goes completely away. Time to write the Senators.
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It costs money to issue a new certificate or to register an airplane. You pay money to the state to get a driver's license or to register your car. This is no different.

There is a big difference between these kinds of fees and things like charging to shoot an approach or to file a flight plan.
 
trafficinsight said:
I would be willing to bet that the cost to process and replace a lost certificate is closer to 25$ than 2$

I am 100% against user fees, however, I think it's time to get a little more realistic about some of the costs that are already established.
Click to expand...

Somehow I doubt it costs north of $10-12 to print out another one of those pieces of plastic using a laser printer with crappy ink and send it in the mail. In order for it to be "closer to $25," that's what we'd be talking about. Doing it in bulk, we MAY be talking $3-5 each. Up the replacement fee to $5-8, and no one will complain. What's postage? Less than a dollar or something? I can buy a sheet of plastic stock and have Kinko's print it out for less than $12.
 
kellwolf said:
Somehow I doubt it costs north of $10-12 to print out another one of those pieces of plastic using a laser printer with crappy ink and send it in the mail. In order for it to be "closer to $25," that's what we'd be talking about. Doing it in bulk, we MAY be talking $3-5 each. Up the replacement fee to $5-8, and no one will complain. What's postage? Less than a dollar or something? I can buy a sheet of plastic stock and have Kinko's print it out for less than $12.
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What you are missing is a projection of the costs every year. Somewhere around at least 4% to add the price of everything.
 
kellwolf said:
Somehow I doubt it costs north of $10-12 to print out another one of those pieces of plastic using a laser printer with crappy ink and send it in the mail. In order for it to be "closer to $25," that's what we'd be talking about. Doing it in bulk, we MAY be talking $3-5 each. Up the replacement fee to $5-8, and no one will complain. What's postage? Less than a dollar or something? I can buy a sheet of plastic stock and have Kinko's print it out for less than $12.
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Can you still do it for less than 12$ if you have to develop, support, and maintain the Kinkos?
 
trafficinsight said:
Can you still do it for less than 12$ if you have to develop, support, and maintain the Kinkos?
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I believe if you are using kinko's they should be making a profit, otherwise they wouldn't be there, therefore you are supporting your piece of this. That is before bulk discounts and the associated economies of scale.

Anyways, I understand a price increase, I mean look at stamps, but to just obliterate anything that was, and attach or insanely increase fees to everything but the examiner taking a crap in the morning is a little drastic
 
trafficinsight said:
Can you still do it for less than 12$ if you have to develop, support, and maintain the Kinkos?
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Government printing offices print a lot more than FAA certs. I'm pretty sure they get funding from other places, too.

I'm not saying not to raise fees. I just think raising them $23 is a little insane, even for the government. Same with the medical fee since technically we're already paying it since it's passed along via the AME.
 
tonyw said:
It costs money to issue a new certificate or to register an airplane. You pay money to the state to get a driver's license or to register your car. This is no different.

There is a big difference between these kinds of fees and things like charging to shoot an approach or to file a flight plan.
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No problem there, but make them revenue neutral. They can't be used to generate extra funds for the agency.
 
tonyw said:
It costs money to issue a new certificate or to register an airplane. You pay money to the state to get a driver's license or to register your car. This is no different.

There is a big difference between these kinds of fees and things like charging to shoot an approach or to file a flight plan.
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Sure, but I only pay the state of Mississippi $5 every 3 years for the privilege of driving here. And that license at least has my picture on it. In order to cover the cost of ONE misplaced FAA license, that would be 15 years worth of living here.
 
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