Zero to Hero Concept

Last hiring session at UND they hired 10 people out of 40. 3 females applied and 3 females got hired.
 
Douglas said:
I believe some can handle it and some can't. Some would do well with 1,500 tt under their belt. Some should never.
I've never been there, don't know and nothing against you but she has been there.
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I'm pretty damn certain that NOBODY with 500 hours (except maybe Wilbur) would be able to handle an Airbus. Just because she was "there" doesn't mean she knows any better than somebody who wasn't.

I flew with a few 300 hour wonders who were damn certain they were Chuck Yeager in the airplane despite the fact that they sucked. Sometimes if nobody tells you (and you have nothing, like 1000 hours of experience, to tell you otherwise) you have no idea that you suck.

The Spirit thing hits a little close to home for me. A very good friend of mine (who had about 300 hours of PIC in a Lear 60 and 2500+ TT) lives in FLL and applied to them. They turned him down and told him he interviewed well but wasn't competitive and to reapply when he had 1000 PIC. A guy he interviewed with (who had 1000 PIC) later called him to tell him the new hire class was made up of himself and 5 Riddle/UND kids (4 of them were female) all with less than 600 TT and no turbine PIC.
 
BobDDuck said:
I'm pretty damn certain that NOBODY with 500 hours (except maybe Wilbur) would be able to handle an Airbus. Just because she was "there" doesn't mean she knows any better than somebody who wasn't.

I flew with a few 300 hour wonders who were damn certain they were Chuck Yeager in the airplane despite the fact that they sucked. Sometimes if nobody tells you (and you have nothing, like 1000 hours of experience, to tell you otherwise) you have no idea that you suck.

The Spirit thing hits a little close to home for me. A very good friend of mine (who had about 300 hours of PIC in a Lear 60 and 2500+ TT) lives in FLL and applied to them. They turned him down and told him he interviewed well but wasn't competitive and to reapply when he had 1000 PIC. A guy he interviewed with (who had 1000 PIC) later called him to tell him the new hire class was made up of himself and 5 Riddle/UND kids (4 of them were female) all with less than 600 TT and no turbine PIC.
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That is sick!
 
ILSstud said:
:confused: Needless to say she left the table...and I enjoyed my coffee and newspaper.
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Sometimes it isn´t what you say, but how you say it. That is a good rule in dealing with people, and dare I say from experience women in general...

I wasn´t there so I certainly don´t know.
 
granlistillo said:
Sometimes it isn´t what you say, but how you say it. That is a good rule in dealing with people, and dare I say from experience women in general...

I wasn´t there so I certainly don´t know.
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Defensive people become defensive for a reason. She knew just under the surface of her confident face she puts out, she was under qualified and won the lotto. She won't be happy until someone massages her ego about how "cool" it is she made it to Spirit right out of the gate while the rest of us had to scrape it out. Funniest part is, years from now when everyone forgets about it and even she realizes no one cares, she'll admit her own failings. People like that have to come to their own realizations, and they eventually do.
 
Ok, as someone who is closing in on 2000 hours with 1600 dual given, I must say I am very thankful for my experience and have learned A TON. There is, a lot more to go in the learning process.

BUT.....many parts of the world put 300 hour First Officers in the cockpit. Heck, my 1600 hours dual given have been to Chinese Cadets who, after Private, Instrument, Commercial Multi, ATP Written, some King Air time, go home and they are in airline training.

This is a complex issue that has many aspects to it.
 
ILSstud said:
you know, I want the girl to say "ok fine Alec, you are right, I was wrong..." that kind of thing. ;)
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You clearly have a lot to learn about women. :cool:

On a serious note, they are doing cadet programs overseas. Apparently those folks feel that you can go from zero to hero. Your mileage may vary. This does not constitute an endorsement of such programs. Erections lasting more than four hours are a serious medical condition and require immediate attention from a medical professional. Pregnant women, the elderly, and children should avoid extended exposure to happy fun ball. Happy fun ball contains a liquid core which if exposed due to rupture, should not be touched, inhaled, or looked at. If happy fun ball begins to smoke, get away immediately. Seek shelter and cover head. Do not taunt happy fun ball.
 
BobDDuck said:
I'm pretty damn certain that NOBODY with 500 hours (except maybe Wilbur) would be able to handle an Airbus. Just because she was "there" doesn't mean she knows any better than somebody who wasn't.

I flew with a few 300 hour wonders who were damn certain they were Chuck Yeager in the airplane despite the fact that they sucked. Sometimes if nobody tells you (and you have nothing, like 1000 hours of experience, to tell you otherwise) you have no idea that you suck.

The Spirit thing hits a little close to home for me. A very good friend of mine (who had about 300 hours of PIC in a Lear 60 and 2500+ TT) lives in FLL and applied to them. They turned him down and told him he interviewed well but wasn't competitive and to reapply when he had 1000 PIC. A guy he interviewed with (who had 1000 PIC) later called him to tell him the new hire class was made up of himself and 5 Riddle/UND kids (4 of them were female) all with less than 600 TT and no turbine PIC.
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I feel your pain too and that BS hits very close to home with me as well
 
Louie1975 said:
BUT.....many parts of the world put 300 hour First Officers in the cockpit.
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The training (and much more importantly the SELECTION PROCESS) those 300 hour First Officers go through is NOTHING like paying 50K a year and sitting through Riddle classes.
 
One of the big problems with low time regional first officers is they lack making real world command decisions as PIC. They have limited PIC time, and what PIC time they have is in a highly structured environment that gives them little room to make decisions on their own.

Even though they are acting as SIC at the regional. Having real world command decision making experience as PIC allows them to be a truly effective crewmember who is able to cross check the Captains decisions and offer effective comment and suggestions as to a particular course of action.
 
ILSstud said:
...Isn't it a generally accepted principle that piloting a jet requires "some" amount of experience, whether that be through CFI or flying small airplanes before graduating onto a passenger airliner?...
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Just out of curiosity, how many hours does the average military pilot have when he/she starts piloting a jet?
 
A CFI with 1500 hours flying the traffic pattern in a 152 is a lot more experienced than someone with 500 to fly a passenger aircraft? Lets get real, in my class there were pilots with 300 hours and 3000 hours. 4 of the hired that had over 3000 hours did not pass the sim while everyone else did.
 
BobDDuck said:
I'm pretty damn certain that NOBODY with 500 hours (except maybe Wilbur) would be able to handle an Airbus. Just because she was "there" doesn't mean she knows any better than somebody who wasn't.

I flew with a few 300 hour wonders who were damn certain they were Chuck Yeager in the airplane despite the fact that they sucked. Sometimes if nobody tells you (and you have nothing, like 1000 hours of experience, to tell you otherwise) you have no idea that you suck.

The Spirit thing hits a little close to home for me. A very good friend of mine (who had about 300 hours of PIC in a Lear 60 and 2500+ TT) lives in FLL and applied to them. They turned him down and told him he interviewed well but wasn't competitive and to reapply when he had 1000 PIC. A guy he interviewed with (who had 1000 PIC) later called him to tell him the new hire class was made up of himself and 5 Riddle/UND kids (4 of them were female) all with less than 600 TT and no turbine PIC.
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OK, so maybe I went off tangent in the thread, so I'd like to ask. . .what are talking about here? Is it the zero to hero concept or female pilots? Alec, (good evening to you as well! :D) Yes, your friend was a little thin skinned indeed, but her furlough wasn't a gender issue but a seniority, or lack thereof, one. Why is she complaining?

So many schools of thought here, and for me, it's all about being a good pilot whether you're low time or not coupled with quality of training and experience. Good pilot, quality of training and vast experience. . .that makes for a great pilot. Change anyone of those intangibles to a negative, and the quality of the pilot then deteriorates.
 
Pilot84 said:
A CFI with 1500 hours flying in a 152 in a traffic pattern is a lot more experienced than someone with 500 to fly a passenger aircraft? Lets get real, in my class there were pilots with 300 hours and 3000 hours. 4 of the hired that had over 3000 hours did not pass the sim while everyone else did.
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Exceptions to the rule don't justify the rule not being there. I heard the funniest thing the other day. Someone was trying to justify the proposed ATP bill to be wrong because of the NW Pilots. They were talking about all the time in the airplane etc. etc. etc. However your statement and his are nothing more then exceptions.

From my understanding and this is second hand info that just seems to match up from others is that you are a burden on your captain regardless for about your first 100 hours in the airplane before you start to become really comfortable in it. However take someone with 300 hours and very little PIC decision making and they are just going to drag down that flight crew even more. At this point the Capt is flying the airplane single pilot around thunderstorms dealing w/ icing etc etc etc. The Captain is there to make the final decision but you are there as a crew to come up w/ the best possible decision for every problem. How can this be accomplished as a 300 hour pilot? Thus you have one person making all the decision alone and as we all know humans are human.

I have heard it on here before from Capt's that had there arse saved by an FO. Would this have happened w/ a less experienced FO taxing around JFK at night. Maybe but I like my odds the other way around.

To the less then 1500 hour total time RJ and TP FO's, stop taking these threads as personal shots to your piloting skills. We are trying to brainstorm ways to improve the industry not take shots at your piloting abilities.
 
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