Transition from high speed approach to normal landing.

ASpilot2be

ASpilot2be

Qbicle seat warmer
Today I got a chance to go out and do a couple ILS approaches to Anchorage, and on the last approach we were able to do a touch-n-go.

We were doing our approaches at 120kts because we had jets behind us. At about 200ft we slowed down for the landing. But I was all over the place during this transition.

Any tips on how to make this a smooth operation?
 
Try to be at Vref at DH rather than slowing to Vref after DH. Nothing wrong with crossing the marker at 120 and slowing to ref from that point.

-mini
 
Constant scanning of groundspeed if able, to match rate of descent with groundspeed.

GS*5=ROD required for 3 degree glide(ie 100 knots * 5 = 500 fpm)
Or
GS/2+ 0=ROD (ie 100 knots in half is 50 plus 0 is 500 fpm)

The reduction of speed will require gradual change of pitch with near continous back pressure addition until stabilized at ref speed or desired approach speed.

Just keep an eye on ROD and as always small control inputs.
 
Bring the power back to ~1200 (IIRC...it's been a few months since I did a lot of instrument in the 172) and really, really, really watch your aim point (the 1000' markers) and pitch to keep heading there as you add flaps. Once you've slowed to 65 or so just fly the rest like a normal approach. 120 is a bit fast though especially if you're transitioning at DA. With a new student I'd rather be hitting DA at around 100.
 
Thanks for the tips. I will try them the next time I get up. Today I dont think I applied enough back pressure because I ended up low.

Roger said:
Bring the power back to ~1200 (IIRC...it's been a few months since I did a lot of instrument in the 172) and really, really, really watch your aim point (the 1000' markers) and pitch to keep heading there as you add flaps. Once you've slowed to 65 or so just fly the rest like a normal approach. 120 is a bit fast though especially if you're transitioning at DA. With a new student I'd rather be hitting DA at around 100.
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We fly our approaches at max forward speed because they put us between 747s, and MD-11. Also, the decision to make it a touch-n-go was kind of last minute because they cleared us for the option. Normally they just clear us for a low approach.
 
ASpilot2be said:
Thanks for the tips. I will try them the next time I get up. Today I dont think I applied enough back pressure because I ended up low.
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Keep trimming as the speed bleeds off too! that will help a LOT.
 
Going into ANC like that, you helped yourself get more approaches and the controller by not having to over space for the jets coming up behind you.

Nothing worst than a slow prop in front of a lot of fast jets. I have been on both sides of this case. Flying I would fly 120kts till 100ft then pull the power and put in flaps as I slowed. It does make for a interesting but fun approach, remember if things get hairy/odd for you go-around. In a C172 on the long runways in ANC you have lots of room to practice this and see what works for you. I will tell you, legally ATC can not assign a speed inside the FAF. All we can do is ask, its up to you to make the PIC decision to fly it or not. we can and do assign speeds to the FAF for spacing. If you make it hard on a controller to sequence you into an airport, they will stop the additional service quickly workload permitting.
 
ASpilot2be said:
Today I got a chance to go out and do a couple ILS approaches to Anchorage, and on the last approach we were able to do a touch-n-go.

We were doing our approaches at 120kts because we had jets behind us. At about 200ft we slowed down for the landing. But I was all over the place during this transition.

Any tips on how to make this a smooth operation?
Click to expand...

Come down the pike at max airspeed for flaps 10, then when you hit DH, pitch up until the white arc, reducing power all the while, then once you hit the white arc go full flaps and point it at the numbers. A 172 will do this is you time it just right. That being said it can be kind of hard on the airplane, probably not any harder than touch and goes though.
 
ASpilot2be said:
Today I got a chance to go out and do a couple ILS approaches to Anchorage, and on the last approach we were able to do a touch-n-go.

We were doing our approaches at 120kts because we had jets behind us. At about 200ft we slowed down for the landing. But I was all over the place during this transition.

Any tips on how to make this a smooth operation?
Click to expand...
Flaps aside, I'd begin to slow down for landing. Fact of the matter though, is that if there are jets doing the ILS, you should have no problem having enough runway to land a 172, even one still going 120 at DH. You don't have to land on the 1000' marker you know.
 
BajtheJino said:
You can also kick in a hard slip with some back pressure.
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I was thinking the same thing, Do a slip but add some up elevator to "flatten" it out. That will usually slow up a typical GA aircraft.

My home airport has a VOR approach that if we land full stop, we will get a LAHSO so we have to go from 90 knots at 500AGL at MDA over the overrun of the app end to around 3000ft of runway to meet the LAHSO requirement. Fun stuff.
 
ASpilot2be said:
We fly our approaches at max forward speed because they put us between 747s, and MD-11. Also, the decision to make it a touch-n-go was kind of last minute because they cleared us for the option. Normally they just clear us for a low approach.
Click to expand...
I hope you were keeping yourself 1 dot above glideslope for wake turbulence.
 
All the times I flew into LAX in a C-172 I just flew normal approaches - they know small planes fly slower and plan for it. I never sent anyone around.
 
Thanks for all the help guys.
Yank&BankmyRJ145 said:
Going into ANC like that, you helped yourself get more approaches and the controller by not having to over space for the jets coming up behind you.

Nothing worst than a slow prop in front of a lot of fast jets. I have been on both sides of this case. Flying I would fly 120kts till 100ft then pull the power and put in flaps as I slowed. It does make for a interesting but fun approach, remember if things get hairy/odd for you go-around. In a C172 on the long runways in ANC you have lots of room to practice this and see what works for you. I will tell you, legally ATC can not assign a speed inside the FAF. All we can do is ask, its up to you to make the PIC decision to fly it or not. we can and do assign speeds to the FAF for spacing. If you make it hard on a controller to sequence you into an airport, they will stop the additional service quickly workload permitting.
Click to expand...
I do what I can to help. :)

Good to know about not being able to be assigned a speed within the FAF.

subpilot said:
I hope you were keeping yourself 1 dot above glideslope for wake turbulence.
Click to expand...
At that time there hadnt been a heavy arrival for sometime. The biggest concern was jet blast from heavies departing the perpendicular runway.

I_Money said:
All the times I flew into LAX in a C-172 I just flew normal approaches - they know small planes fly slower and plan for it. I never sent anyone around.
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Almost all the approach is over water so I like to try and get the approach done as fast as possible. I also like to help ATC out.
 
Do it some more. In my experience trying to keep a bunch of numbers in your head and overthinking it is not sooper helpful, especially when you're relatively low time. Keep at it and you'll find what works for you.
 
ASpilot2be said:
Also, the decision to make it a touch-n-go was kind of last minute because they cleared us for the option. Normally they just clear us for a low approach.
Click to expand...

That's a good way to do it. Most of my instrument approaches were to a missed approach when i was training. Which lead to things being pretty fishy from DH down to the runway. And my landings went to crap.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
That's a good way to do it. Most of my instrument approaches were to a missed approach when i was training. Which lead to things being pretty fishy from DH down to the runway. And my landings went to crap.
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Pretty common. Nothing to worry about. I like to build a day or two of pattern work in to instrument training if I can, to keep the student "sharp". ...of course, we fly some of the "patterns" at circling MDA...to keep things interesting.

-mini
 
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