Don't trust the ATO

hudson26 said:
My class had 18 and 4 failed the first time, all 4 failed the second time too. It's all over the board from class to class... but I too don't buy the 95%+ pass rate...
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It's all about your instructors.
My class of 18 was 18/18, but our sister class who had a instructor was 14/17.
 
My class was 17 for 17...sister class was 16 for 17. That's 97%. I also just talked to my instructor from okc and his current class PV'ed his week...18 for 18. Yes some classes lose 4 people, but some classes lose No people. So the 96-97% pass rate is accurate if you take all classes and avg. them.

Okc is designed for you to pass. I, and everyone I knew in both en route and terminal, thought okc was a complete joke. I honestly feel that it should be harder so it prepares you for the real thing.

My advice is this...just study as much as YOU have to. For some people that might be practically never, and for some it might be a lot. Each person needs to know if they are getting IT or not. And you study accordingly.
 
WoH said:
A few things:

1. I just wanted to say that I'm not buying this 95-97% pass rate. Seems to me that roughly 1-2 people per class have been failing. That's more like 85-93% depending on the class size.

2. It wasn't an issue where they said +/- 50 and he was at 55. They said 310 was the limit and that's where he was. It wasn't a little mistake on his part, it was an inconsistency on theirs that we're complaining about.

3. Queeno's posts make him sound like and a s s h o l e because he is an a s s h o l e. A big itchy one. He's never denied it. I think he prides himself in it. His "insight" is valuable only as a cautionary tale of what not to become. Ignore him and he goes away.
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looks like iam right about the FFA a sonny,as for being a A Hole well welcome to ATC pal. i may be like a 2X4 to the back of the head but unlike the FFA iam not gona lie to you and blow smoke up your asses.funny how the controllers i worked with liked me?

are you people gonna tell me your suprised that the kid did somthing he was taught and the FFA failed him for it because to me its just par for the course with them, welcome to ATC and get use to it if you want to work for that sick outfit.
 
mbalunda said:
I guess it depends on how you define class. Are you only counting the 18 people you're actually with, or do you include the sister class as well which just goes during a different part of the day? When my friend finished there was only 1 person out of 36 who didn't pass, which falls right into that range of 95-97%
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Yeah it's hard to say, the class behind us failed 0/18, our class failed 6/18 first day, 4/6 the second, then the class after us failed 1/18.
 
queeno said:
looks like iam right about the FFA a sonny,as for being a A Hole well welcome to ATC pal. i may be like a 2X4 to the back of the head but unlike the FFA iam not gona lie to you and blow smoke up your asses.funny how the controllers i worked with liked me?

are you people gonna tell me your suprised that the kid did somthing he was taught and the FFA failed him for it because to me its just par for the course with them, welcome to ATC and get use to it if you want to work for that sick outfit.
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FFA? Future Farmers of America?
 
ATCtower said:
What do I have invested? You mean other than about 50k in flight time, 15k in school, two aviation degrees, and a CTI certificate? What do you have invested? A thousand posts on a half-rate aviation website and ten minutes applying to a pubnat?

Aviation may be a cold bitch to some, but to me (and many others) it is life.... I am making 78,900 a year at my job now and cant wait for a shot at ATC. Passion means a whole lot more than being a post w.hore here.

Excuse me for the tirade but come on dip/.... Lets get a legitimate post back...............
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The Best part of this post is knowing that I got the job without all this experience or money invested...:rotfl:
 
Wyopoke79 said:
The Best part of this post is knowing that I got the job without all this experience or money invested...:rotfl:
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Sadly, a lot of the guys coming out of college with their CTIs now started before the FAA began hiring off the street. So when they started their CTI programs, that was the only way for civilians to get into ATC. I've talked to a few guys who've mentioned they would've skipped the whole CTI thing if they would've know the FAA was going to open it up.
 
jcpilot said:
Sadly, a lot of the guys coming out of college with their CTIs now started before the FAA began hiring off the street. So when they started their CTI programs, that was the only way for civilians to get into ATC. I've talked to a few guys who've mentioned they would've skipped the whole CTI thing if they would've know the FAA was going to open it up.
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:clap:the sad thing is.........those cti hires end up resenting the new ots hires... as if I did something wrong for applying at the right time. :beer:
 
Well when they stop hiring OTS (which they will) those people will still have CTI (which we won't)
 
I just can't help but notice the similarity between this:

jcpilot said:
So when they started their CTI programs, that was the only way for civilians to get into ATC. I've talked to a few guys who've mentioned they would've skipped the whole CTI thing if they would've know the FAA was going to open it up.
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and this:

queeno said:
are you people gonna tell me your suprised that the kid did somthing he was taught and the FFA failed him for it because to me its just par for the course with them, welcome to ATC and get use to it if you want to work for that sick outfit.
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But then, I'm probably just one of those old folks that gets my Depends in a wad.
 
Wyopoke79 said:
The Best part of this post is knowing that I got the job without all this experience or money invested...:rotfl:
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Yep, and if you should F up, you will be out on your ass with nothing to fall back on. Simply because ATC doesn't currently require a degree doesn't mean its not a good thing to have. But then again, if you were smart enough to know that, we probably wouldn't be having this little debate.

jcpilot said:
Sadly, a lot of the guys coming out of college with their CTIs now started before the FAA began hiring off the street. So when they started their CTI programs, that was the only way for civilians to get into ATC. I've talked to a few guys who've mentioned they would've skipped the whole CTI thing if they would've know the FAA was going to open it up.
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I was one who started before the OTS hiring began, and feel I gained valuable insight with the program, but would have also applied OTS if CTI weren't almost guaranteed selection.

Wyopoke79 said:
:clap:the sad thing is.........those cti hires end up resenting the new ots hires... as if I did something wrong for applying at the right time. :beer:
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Now there is a well rounded, non-biased post.:rolleyes: I do not resent OTS whatsoever for the luck and options available. I do think its rather dumb the FAA will allow someone with progressive McWork experience, and require no degree for a job/field where your responsibility is unmatched by ANY profession in the world. Kinda makes me feel a little less safe flying actually, but in NO way do I resent someone for taking the initiative and applying.

WoH said:
Well when they stop hiring OTS (which they will) those people will still have CTI (which we won't)
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Careful with that one buddy. I have been saying the same thing for months and people enjoy flaming us believing it is their "Right" to work in the field and shouldn't have to do anything to get it.
 
ATCtower said:
Careful with that one buddy. I have been saying the same thing for months and people enjoy flaming us believing it is their "Right" to work in the field and shouldn't have to do anything to get it.
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LOL, I just enjoy point out that people have been saying that for a lot longer than a few months. First there wasn't going to be a PUBNAT7, because they were done with OTS. Then there wasn't going to be a PUBNAT8, because there were done with OTS. Everyone claims to know that they are stopping OTS but I have yet to see one real indication of it... I'm gonna get a good laugh when PUBNAT9 comes out. Not sure why people get a kick out of spreading this rumor...
 
The speculation is amusing here and there.

I dont think they will do away with the pubnats, but I have been saying for a long time they wont go on the way they did last year, and with only one this year, it seems as though it just might be slowing down.....
 
ATCtower said:
. . .for a job/field where your responsibility is unmatched by ANY profession in the world.
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Exactly. Way more than the President, or a heart surgeon, brain surgeon, any kind of surgeon really, a pilot, a soldier, clergyman, etc.

/sarcasm
 
hudson26 said:
LOL, I just enjoy point out that people have been saying that for a lot longer than a few months. First there wasn't going to be a PUBNAT7, because they were done with OTS. Then there wasn't going to be a PUBNAT8, because there were done with OTS. Everyone claims to know that they are stopping OTS but I have yet to see one real indication of it... I'm gonna get a good laugh when PUBNAT9 comes out. Not sure why people get a kick out of spreading this rumor...
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I don't mean to claim that they are done, but one day, 1? 5? 10? years in the future, I do think that they will stop hiring OTS.
 
Here's my two cents...

queeno may be blunt, but he's not wrong.

according to an ATC trainer that I talked to...CTI guys fail out more often than OTS guys because A. they come in thinking they are the bomb-diggity then B. tick off their trainers who no longer put the effort into them and C. OTS guys try harder cause they know they don't know anything about this field (at least this was the case at his facility).

just because you dont have a degree doesnt mean you are a dunce and shouldn't be given a shot at this job. and besides that, degree or no degree, you have a better chance of getting a job at McDonalds than a job with your degree right now. I have a degree and I am feeling it personally.

just remember, most of the guys you are replacing are OTS from back in the day. don't say anything that is going to get you flagged as a DB, you never know who is patrolling these forum pages...
 
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